Originally posted by dawnghost
first of all, your friend and wife should really be considered to be geniuses then, if they can state with such confidence that AIG is nothing more than pure silly bs.
Surely you can come up with something better than this.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that AIG is full of shit, inherently biased, ignorant of the facts, and nothing but the latest installment in the great dogmatic propaganda campaign of christianity. It's really VERY VERY obvious. I would actually think any who didn't see this right off the bat is a misguided fool who isn't playing with a full deck.
and actually, you must be pretty good at philosophy too, even though you lack the competence to discuss moral relativism
You are as childish as you are silly. As I recall, I said nothing about lacking the competance to discuss moral relativism, quite the opposite in fact. In such a conversation with me you would undoubtedly look almost as silly as you do in discussing the topic at hand. As I recall, I said I wasn't interested in that right now because there is a much more urgent topic you need to address, and I also said that I would be willing to discuss it with you at a later time. Don't believe me? Re-read the post I made to see your own obvious error. This is nothing more than a childish attempt on your part to save face, and once again, your attempt has completely backfired on you cuz I see through your nonsense right to your intentions.
Give it up, your credibility has already been shattered. You'd really be better off creating a new handle for yourself because you've already soiled this one beyond any hope of reconciliation.
(a subject not as simple as you've stated. you are gonna find various books in amazon.com about the subject, and I recommend you buy and read them. backed up by HARD science, wow).
I'll say it again. The idea of relativism isn't limited to "morality". That is just your innane world view that has a tendency to chop and divide reality into it's constituent parts, even though the knife in which you use to chop it up is a purely subjective one (ie. relativistic, duh). It's applicable to everything, including science, something you would be acutely aware of if you had the faintest idea what you were talking about (which you quite obviously do not).
If you want to start a discussion on this then I officially challenge you to it, seeing as you lack the balls to discuss the original topic with me after taking such a beating which you are obviously unable to defend against. Let's see what you got and see if you are as deluded and speculative when it comes to relativism as you are with hard science.
actually, I have seen all your prior attacks A MILLION times before, and I get sooo bored of this kind of debate. in the end, it gets down to nothing at all and this is just not the media to discuss this kind of subject IMHO.
Nice cop-out. I could say the same, I've encountered many people such as yourself, and many of them were far more intelligent and less presumptuous and ignorant of the facts that you, and the result still came down to the cold fact that their theistic bullplop boils down to conjecture and faith alone. The facts do no suppor such a position and I think you realize that (though unable to admit it, probably because it will offend you presumed "god", haah)
BUT, I really feel you should read more about this 'silly, biased institution' called AIG.
No thanks, I've read a lot already and it's the most ridiculous piece of crap I've ever seen.
I recommend you read the following article on the whole, to protect you from the embarassment of pointing these old and misinformed 'gaps' in creationism once again:
15 ways to refute materialistic bigotry
haha, funny stuff! Calling evolutionary biologist "materialists", as if that's actually insulting, good one!
From that awful AIG nonsense you just posted, I read this line:
"Now the current editor since late 1994, one John Rennie (b. 1959), has also fervently promoted the anti-God evolution agenda."
The "anti-God evolution agenda"? Hilarious! I've seen this little piece of mindless creationist propaganda before, and it gets more and more funny every time I see it because I have a hard time believing that people such as yourself could be sucked in by such blatant idiocy. It really puts your general intelligence into question, in case you don't realize that.
The pursuit of science is not some "agenda" to crush the tennants of your favourite mythology, as much as you'd like to believe it is to support your whacky assertions. The people in it aren't under Satan's influence and seeking to destroy the faith of the world and turn everyone against "god". That is must more of your sort or completely irrational superstitious idiocy revealing it's silly head, and it's exactly this sort of mindless presumption which lead to the witch hunts of the dark ages. From this, creationist derive a "motive" for dishonesty on the part of scientists, even though science itself is WAY more honest than religion has EVER been, even though science calls their ideas "theories" instead of "truths" and is constantly self-checking the validity of the evidence and looking to ways to counter their own theories. Does religion do this? No, obviously. Religion is PURE dogma with very little or no regard to the facts, as history has shown us and is still showing us.
This is one of the things which makes people such as yourself look like babbling fools, and it's why you get so little respect from anyone with a partial clue. And that's being honest. Your idiotic "conspiracy theories" about how all the non-christians are somehow evil and waging war against god's word is simply too stupid to deserve anything but a good laugh and a whole lot of empathy.
Also from that dumb and misleading propaganda article: "That is why AiGs primary focus is not on refuting evolution per se, but rather building a consistent Biblical Christian world view."
It just keeps getting whackier and whackier
And this was funny too: "Perhaps the USA is the most scientifically advanced nation the world has ever known precisely because it has been the most Bible-based society the world has ever known! And that includes belief in the Biblical account of Creation, the Fall and the Flood."
"Creation, the Fall, and the Flood"? Oh boy, you poor misguided fool. If this is what passes for a scientific article for you then you truly sad off indeed. When you post absolutely stupid bullshit like this, do you actually expect anyone to have any respect whatsoever? If you do, then you are more deluded and confused than even I think.
The rest of the article is a bunch of bullplop, none of which I could really take seriously because:
1. they think evolutions are god-less pagans out to turn people away from their presumed god
2. it's misleading and childish to the extreme
3. it offers NO EVIDENCE or REASONS whatsoever in support of their whacky creationist ideas, and assumes, as you do, that ignorantly and misleadingly poking holes in existing theories somehow validate their own dogma. It does not, which is why it's all so very very stupid and simply not worthy of being taken seriously.
this will specially help you on the challenge I will propose to you now:
Dude, given your record and you inability to defend your own bullplop, I don't think it's in your best interests to be challenging me on anything. You are obviously outmatched, and it's extremely evident.
as I believe this whole discussion has started way bad, and as I don't want to underestimate you (even though you clearly underestimate me), I'd like to take this to a more solid and organized ground.
You'll have to convince me that you are capable of emperical reasoning, and nothing you have said thus far has indicated this. So while you may attempt to take it to "more solid and organized ground", I sincerely doubt your ability to do so.
there's an online community that I know that has foruns just like this one. the difference is that the discussions in THAT forum are mainly about creationism x evolutionism and apologetics.
Sounds good. I'm there, count me in.
if we are so silly, it should be a good opportunity to defend your theory there, and make us all look like fools.
I doubt it will be very difficult, and I doubt many, if any, of them will offer anymore of a challenge to emperical reasoning and common sense than you have. You can quote me on this, if you like.
of course, the discussion will be organized in topics, and we are gonna cover each one in detail. you can choose the topics too. it doesn't matter at all.
Sounds good. I look forward to shedding the sort of blantant idiocy and ignorance you and the Answers in Genesis Ministries website seems to intent on clinging to and using to convince others of the supposed logical nature of your ridiculous assertions ("the flood", hahaha).
this should prove to be far more interesting than this crazy discussion we are having here, one that is tending slowly to a childish flame war.
It's a shame you lack the nads to respond, but I understand why you cannot and will not. You are not the first misguided creationist to back down from a conversation with me, and you will certainly not be the last.
I don't have the patience for this anymore, been in far too many and reading the same thing over and over again bores me.
Excuses, excuses
if you fancy a serious debate, post here.
I do, and I will, you can be assured of that.
oh, and quit your speech about "biased" position, as if there was something such as neutrality in scientific circles. you're either just plain naive or hasn't read Nietzsche
Don't be so blantantly foolish. You fully realize that the integrity and honesty emperical reasoning and the scientific method lead to FAR more honesty and credibility than your creationist nonsense ever had, or ever will have. I don't recall saying anything about science being completely neutral, just far more honest and logical and therefore FAR less biased that your thiest conjecture. I think that's painfully obvious as well.
oh and ANOTHER challenge for you:
Tekton Chicken Challenge
I'm not interested in this in the slightest, it seems very foolish and pointless. However, if you feel there is something in any of those pages that you want me to address, then by all means, post it and you will get a reply, I absolutely guarantee it.
The reason I think this site is stupid is because it's dealing entirely with biblical dogma/rhetoric, meaning that any conversation about it is purely in the realm of
conjecture, not the observable facts. The means there is no objective ground on which to base the various theories, so it's totally meaningless to debate such things, it leads nowhere. It's not like evolution, it's not rational, we may as well debate the supposed literal "truth" of metaphysical greek mythology, it would be equally as pointless. In short, it's not emperical, it's entirely mythological, and I have no interest in arguing with this twit about it. I'm only interested in what the evidence and our best effort at reason shows to be worthy of consideration, everything else is just conjecture, and not even good conjecture, it's just archaic nonsense from an earlier time in human history and intellectual evolution when people were barbaric morons without a clue.
However, I'll say it again, if there's anything you feel you want me to address, just mention it.
I'd love if you participated more actvively on this issue, instead of just mocking and throwing random babbling in.
In case you didn't notice, I deconstructed and refuted pretty much all of your baseless assertions. That's hardly mocking and random babbling.
btw, I may not be the one to debate directly with you in the future, but at least I am giving you the chance to continue this.
I don't suggest you debate me again, on anything, I sincerely feel you are not equipped to be taking part in such discussions with me and it's obvious, and it will just make it more difficult for to you to cling to your various delusions and misconceptions. Stick to reading that pathetic AIG nonsense, it's for your own good, reality is clearly not something that sits well in your mind filled with metaphysical conspiracy theories and baseless conjecture. You are best avoiding reality altogether because it holds nothing to validate your whacky assertions. Can I get an Amen?
I am sorry if my 'withdrawal' from this debate is seen by you like I have 'lost'. I don't see the ones I am discussing with as 'opponents' really, and I've learned a lot from my previous experiences. too bad I've failed to learn anything new from you.
Cop-out. I see your effort in trying to save face, and I don't blame you for it, but you should realize by now that unless you are willing and able to defend your whacky presumptions against critique then your theories are absolutely worthless, and so is your credibility. I'm just stating the obvious.
What you have failed to realize dearest dawnghost is that you wild theories ARE NOT SUPPORTED by the evidence, and are actually contradicted by it. This means you whole "god did it" bandwagon mentality doesn't have a leg to stand on, and I feel you know this, though you are certainly unable to admit it to yourself or anyone else because you have a pre-existing obligation to uphold this nonsense above and beyond all evidence and reason. That, in a nutshell, is what I was saying, and it remains completely uncontested by you, which certainly comes as no surprise to me. After all, you cannot contest it because the hard facts are as plain as the fallacies you deem as the height of scientific and intellectual thought.
You are no more intelligent or insightful than any other theist from any other religion. You may as well be in Africa dancing around a bonfire while stoned on drugs, sacrificing lifestock to your god(s). Dispite christianity's desparate and futile attempts to appear all knowledgable and scientific, it still looks like a pile of nonsensical, barbaric, repugnant, and intellectually limiting dogma by just about everyone who isn't obligated to uphold it and it's assertions. You are part of a dying breed my friend, the world is become more reasonable and more emperical and less superstitious, it's a trend that has been going on for hundreds of years and the attempts by people such as yourself to pull us back into the dark ages will be unsuccessful. People are much to smart for that nowaday, much too fearless and insightful. Mark my words.
Satori
PS: I noticed you neglected to provide the link to the wonderful pro-creationist propaganda forum you mentioned.
