Kenneth R.
Cináed
@ Statler
You don't know your history at all do you? I'll ignore the gross oversight of that last post and address (here we go) the lengthy discourse about Germany.
Firstly, you must be aware that "Germany" was original hundreds of small kingdoms, the largest of which was Prussia. With the threat from France (Germany, France, Austria... always at war in the 1700-1800s) as France became strong, the King of Prussia conquered much of the land now known as Germany in order to unite all Germans under one nation. This is the beginning of nationalism. It didn't even start with Germany, they got the idea from France and other European movements. The Germans, however, has issue as to what was theirs. Should they consider Germany everywhere that people spoke German? Or should they consider Germany by a certain territorial boundary, regardless of the language and culture of people who live there? Remember that Europe was many small kingdoms of unique cultures, so people in some parts of "Germany" spoke other languages.
Well, the debate raged on. It was never settled until the 1900s. I'll gloss over some details here, suffice to say that although the Germans had unified, there were many unanswered questions. Such as what do we do with this part of southern Denmark, where people speak German? Is it Germany? Should we invade and "liberate" them? Another massive issue at the time was the class system. Having just emerged as a unified country, remnants of the many kingdoms remained in the political spectrum. All over Europe the move away from divine-right monarchy to a more democratic system was beginning, spurred on by the revolution under way in France. The people demanded that they have a government, not just a king. Many of Europe's rulers, including Germany, agreed. But the conservative powerful aristocrats wanted to be sly about it, we will allow voting, but only landholding men can vote. This eliminated the vast majority of workers who did not own land. This way, the rich still retained power. But the peasants got smart. They teamed together, eventually forming the first and longest standing political party, the SPD - roughly the socialist party of germany. While this was still in its forming stages, the governing bodies did everything they could to keep power, but ultimately the citizens won. They lobbyed for peasant votes. The king said, fine, you may vote, but your vote only counts once, and an aristocrat's vote counts 10 times. Something like this. Thus they formed political parties to team up and all vote together, since there were so many peasants, they could outnumber the rich even with such a disadvantage. They wanted rights, and they wanted lower taxes, and less military development, for they feared yet another war with France or Austria.
Consider now WW1, in which the German kaiser tries to answer the old question of "what is Germany?" by conquering as much of it as he can. Though the peasants succeeded in blocking his influence legally, the rich changed the laws and manipulated the system as much as possible so as to retain power and expand the military. The kaiser's plan was to strike first, thus ending all contest for Germany to be attacked in the future.
Again skipping over more cultural details such as the emergence of women's rights and freedoms, particularly in France, with the defeat of Germany in WW1, the victorious forces made the greatest mistakes, ultimately directly causing WW2. Ignore whatever "Arch Duke Ferdinand" or whatnot they taught in grade school, the real cause is economical. With the severity of the penalties on Germany for losing, such as forcing them to apologize, pay for their losses AND the losses of other nations, German economy spiraled into oblivion. Billions of marks would not buy a loaf of bread. But the victorious forces were ignorant of this impending situation. They foolishly imposed harsh payment on Germany, and Britain, via American banks, loaned Germany money in order to pay for their debt. This triangle of trade was the greatest downfall of the early 20th century. The Americans thought they would receive German manufactured goods and services, Britain would claim interest and be the "good samaritan" for helping, and Germany would be able to rebuild. But, as stated, the penalties were simply too great. The land was a wartorn mud waste. There were no crops. Without the war, industry stagnated. Germany fell into deep depression. As a result, Britain and America did also. (1929-1939). We call it the Great Depression. We blame it on the stock speculation in the 20's. While that is absolutely a major factor, there would be no stock crash if it were not for the mistake of funneling money into broken Germany.
Now, consider 20's Germany. Just like America, the war is over, the economy is not so bad just yet, and new freedoms (since the other, more liberal nations won) are being experienced everywhere. The conservative rich are furious. They want to do anything they can to bring down this puppet government, the Weimar Republic. It was doomed to fail because those in power during the war stayed in power afterwards. Europe felt their severe punishment would keep them in line. It was wrong. The top of the military and the top of the government are all seething and working furiously to return Germany to a proud monarchy.
Enter Karl Marx. With the arrival of communism, great fear spreads over Europe, particularly in Italy. All over Europe, the old monarchies of the middle ages are in direct threat from an idea that empowers the once powerless poor. THEY can govern. What a shuddering thought. In places like Italy and Germany, once majestic, romantic empires, thoughts of returning to that old way arise. The italians wish to recreate Rome, the Germans the old monarchy. These ideas of greatness, in a downward economy, inspire a tricky plan for the conservative rich. We can't simply force the people to accept a king, they say. But we fear communism, look how it has already spread like fire! We must find a third way. So they start to develop fascism. Not all of the conservatives are fascists, by the way. The idea came from several few. But the conservatives, while fearing the fascists, feared communism more. They did everything in their power to aid the fascists in election. Let the people choose for themselves a king, the fools! In Italy, it was highly successful.
In Germany, it was not. It is a common misconception that the German public embraced the fascists. This is simply false. The National Socialist Party, (from which the term "nazi" is derived) had to go to great lengths in order to obtain power. Using the economic turmoil, they heavily implemented propaganda declaring that communism would serve no good, and that fascism would bring back prosperity and a great nation to be proud of. They played upon the weakness and shame brought by Europe's severe punishment for WW1. This still was not enough. The communist party and the fascist party both had military cells, which often would assassinate members of the other party in public, just to intimidate them. This still was not enough. The SPD was still the strongest, most democratic party. The conservative rich did their part too, making it possible for the nazis. They outlawed the SPD. But the SPD met in secret, and voted in secret, and though it was not on the ballot, it managed to exert influence still. It was not until 1932, 1933 that the nazi party forcefully rigged elections to steal the majority. In their first election on the ballot, in which there was little foul play, they only received less than 1% of the vote.
Now having usurped the government and successfully destroying Weimar, the conservatives and the fascists needed a leader to represent them. Adolf Hitler was a bumbling fool. A charismatic speaker, and that is why he stood out. He worked with the conservatives to spy and for that reason he was inducted into their inner circle. Before, he was a nobody. A veteran of WW1, dissatisfied with the country, a failed artist, a fool. Only his speaking ability and persona of the everyman stood him apart. Having brought him in as a puppet leader, the nazis proceeded with their plan. Through their conservative government connections, they got him elected.
At the same time of these events, and throughout the 1700s and 1800s, there was a sentiment among all Europeans that the Jewish among them were alien. They felt that the Jews, though speaking the respective languages of the countries they lived in, had their own culture, their own language. In Germany, this translated to a distate for them and a stereotype that they held no compassion for Germans or Germany. This of course came many many years before the nazis. The Jew, it was seen, was someone who, whether Jewish or not, did amoral things. It can be likened to the concept of homosexuality in today's culture. Often one is labelled "gay" for reasons other than actual homosexuality - it is simply a label for the undesireable.
The conservatives in Germany capitalized on this fear and hate. They found that all non-Germans, Jew or not, were in the way. In the way of what? It goes back to the 14 points and the harsh penalty for WW1. As Germany circled the drain economically, the Jew and other nationals were blamed. Who are they, who live here and take of our produce and money, but are not from our ancestors? There is not enough room for them here! They saw the Jew and the other nationals as feeding off the rot of Germany. They must be expelled.
Thus the plan, use the hate already present. Use the government that was taken over, especially after the purposeful "accident" burning of the Reichstag (seat of government), declare martial law, instill absolute power in their leader, and carry on as they saw fit. Now they will get their glory and power back like the kings and dukes of old. It wasn't originally about race at all. It was about too many mouths to feed, and "we want the power." So, for any petty crime or none at all, or simply in the name of the state of emergency, Jewish businesses and prominent citizens were arrested and deported.
Some could not be deported. They would stay, or they could not be found. The prison camps were filling up. Other countries didn't want them either. What should they do with them? The conservative power in the military was exceptional to the cause. They used it as a training ground for new fascists. Enter the military, be wowed by the stories of glory of old, and by the time you're an officer, you're a fascist.
The takeover was then complete and the rest of the genocide is history. As for the "scientists" of Germany, many true scientists fled to other nations for fear of being tools of the corrupt government. Einstein and Werner von Braun were such. I believe Oppenheimer was also. The "scientists" employed by the nazis were no scientists but mystic psychopaths attempting to conduct their ancient germanic magic in twisted ways. Much of the "race" studies were doctored intentionally to spread propaganda in hopes of convincing more to join the cause. I have read several of those documents in my course on European 1700-1950 history, and German History.
Anything else you want to know? I left out much to save myself the effort of typing all day.
You don't know your history at all do you? I'll ignore the gross oversight of that last post and address (here we go) the lengthy discourse about Germany.Firstly, you must be aware that "Germany" was original hundreds of small kingdoms, the largest of which was Prussia. With the threat from France (Germany, France, Austria... always at war in the 1700-1800s) as France became strong, the King of Prussia conquered much of the land now known as Germany in order to unite all Germans under one nation. This is the beginning of nationalism. It didn't even start with Germany, they got the idea from France and other European movements. The Germans, however, has issue as to what was theirs. Should they consider Germany everywhere that people spoke German? Or should they consider Germany by a certain territorial boundary, regardless of the language and culture of people who live there? Remember that Europe was many small kingdoms of unique cultures, so people in some parts of "Germany" spoke other languages.
Well, the debate raged on. It was never settled until the 1900s. I'll gloss over some details here, suffice to say that although the Germans had unified, there were many unanswered questions. Such as what do we do with this part of southern Denmark, where people speak German? Is it Germany? Should we invade and "liberate" them? Another massive issue at the time was the class system. Having just emerged as a unified country, remnants of the many kingdoms remained in the political spectrum. All over Europe the move away from divine-right monarchy to a more democratic system was beginning, spurred on by the revolution under way in France. The people demanded that they have a government, not just a king. Many of Europe's rulers, including Germany, agreed. But the conservative powerful aristocrats wanted to be sly about it, we will allow voting, but only landholding men can vote. This eliminated the vast majority of workers who did not own land. This way, the rich still retained power. But the peasants got smart. They teamed together, eventually forming the first and longest standing political party, the SPD - roughly the socialist party of germany. While this was still in its forming stages, the governing bodies did everything they could to keep power, but ultimately the citizens won. They lobbyed for peasant votes. The king said, fine, you may vote, but your vote only counts once, and an aristocrat's vote counts 10 times. Something like this. Thus they formed political parties to team up and all vote together, since there were so many peasants, they could outnumber the rich even with such a disadvantage. They wanted rights, and they wanted lower taxes, and less military development, for they feared yet another war with France or Austria.
Consider now WW1, in which the German kaiser tries to answer the old question of "what is Germany?" by conquering as much of it as he can. Though the peasants succeeded in blocking his influence legally, the rich changed the laws and manipulated the system as much as possible so as to retain power and expand the military. The kaiser's plan was to strike first, thus ending all contest for Germany to be attacked in the future.
Again skipping over more cultural details such as the emergence of women's rights and freedoms, particularly in France, with the defeat of Germany in WW1, the victorious forces made the greatest mistakes, ultimately directly causing WW2. Ignore whatever "Arch Duke Ferdinand" or whatnot they taught in grade school, the real cause is economical. With the severity of the penalties on Germany for losing, such as forcing them to apologize, pay for their losses AND the losses of other nations, German economy spiraled into oblivion. Billions of marks would not buy a loaf of bread. But the victorious forces were ignorant of this impending situation. They foolishly imposed harsh payment on Germany, and Britain, via American banks, loaned Germany money in order to pay for their debt. This triangle of trade was the greatest downfall of the early 20th century. The Americans thought they would receive German manufactured goods and services, Britain would claim interest and be the "good samaritan" for helping, and Germany would be able to rebuild. But, as stated, the penalties were simply too great. The land was a wartorn mud waste. There were no crops. Without the war, industry stagnated. Germany fell into deep depression. As a result, Britain and America did also. (1929-1939). We call it the Great Depression. We blame it on the stock speculation in the 20's. While that is absolutely a major factor, there would be no stock crash if it were not for the mistake of funneling money into broken Germany.
Now, consider 20's Germany. Just like America, the war is over, the economy is not so bad just yet, and new freedoms (since the other, more liberal nations won) are being experienced everywhere. The conservative rich are furious. They want to do anything they can to bring down this puppet government, the Weimar Republic. It was doomed to fail because those in power during the war stayed in power afterwards. Europe felt their severe punishment would keep them in line. It was wrong. The top of the military and the top of the government are all seething and working furiously to return Germany to a proud monarchy.
Enter Karl Marx. With the arrival of communism, great fear spreads over Europe, particularly in Italy. All over Europe, the old monarchies of the middle ages are in direct threat from an idea that empowers the once powerless poor. THEY can govern. What a shuddering thought. In places like Italy and Germany, once majestic, romantic empires, thoughts of returning to that old way arise. The italians wish to recreate Rome, the Germans the old monarchy. These ideas of greatness, in a downward economy, inspire a tricky plan for the conservative rich. We can't simply force the people to accept a king, they say. But we fear communism, look how it has already spread like fire! We must find a third way. So they start to develop fascism. Not all of the conservatives are fascists, by the way. The idea came from several few. But the conservatives, while fearing the fascists, feared communism more. They did everything in their power to aid the fascists in election. Let the people choose for themselves a king, the fools! In Italy, it was highly successful.
In Germany, it was not. It is a common misconception that the German public embraced the fascists. This is simply false. The National Socialist Party, (from which the term "nazi" is derived) had to go to great lengths in order to obtain power. Using the economic turmoil, they heavily implemented propaganda declaring that communism would serve no good, and that fascism would bring back prosperity and a great nation to be proud of. They played upon the weakness and shame brought by Europe's severe punishment for WW1. This still was not enough. The communist party and the fascist party both had military cells, which often would assassinate members of the other party in public, just to intimidate them. This still was not enough. The SPD was still the strongest, most democratic party. The conservative rich did their part too, making it possible for the nazis. They outlawed the SPD. But the SPD met in secret, and voted in secret, and though it was not on the ballot, it managed to exert influence still. It was not until 1932, 1933 that the nazi party forcefully rigged elections to steal the majority. In their first election on the ballot, in which there was little foul play, they only received less than 1% of the vote.
Now having usurped the government and successfully destroying Weimar, the conservatives and the fascists needed a leader to represent them. Adolf Hitler was a bumbling fool. A charismatic speaker, and that is why he stood out. He worked with the conservatives to spy and for that reason he was inducted into their inner circle. Before, he was a nobody. A veteran of WW1, dissatisfied with the country, a failed artist, a fool. Only his speaking ability and persona of the everyman stood him apart. Having brought him in as a puppet leader, the nazis proceeded with their plan. Through their conservative government connections, they got him elected.
At the same time of these events, and throughout the 1700s and 1800s, there was a sentiment among all Europeans that the Jewish among them were alien. They felt that the Jews, though speaking the respective languages of the countries they lived in, had their own culture, their own language. In Germany, this translated to a distate for them and a stereotype that they held no compassion for Germans or Germany. This of course came many many years before the nazis. The Jew, it was seen, was someone who, whether Jewish or not, did amoral things. It can be likened to the concept of homosexuality in today's culture. Often one is labelled "gay" for reasons other than actual homosexuality - it is simply a label for the undesireable.
The conservatives in Germany capitalized on this fear and hate. They found that all non-Germans, Jew or not, were in the way. In the way of what? It goes back to the 14 points and the harsh penalty for WW1. As Germany circled the drain economically, the Jew and other nationals were blamed. Who are they, who live here and take of our produce and money, but are not from our ancestors? There is not enough room for them here! They saw the Jew and the other nationals as feeding off the rot of Germany. They must be expelled.
Thus the plan, use the hate already present. Use the government that was taken over, especially after the purposeful "accident" burning of the Reichstag (seat of government), declare martial law, instill absolute power in their leader, and carry on as they saw fit. Now they will get their glory and power back like the kings and dukes of old. It wasn't originally about race at all. It was about too many mouths to feed, and "we want the power." So, for any petty crime or none at all, or simply in the name of the state of emergency, Jewish businesses and prominent citizens were arrested and deported.
Some could not be deported. They would stay, or they could not be found. The prison camps were filling up. Other countries didn't want them either. What should they do with them? The conservative power in the military was exceptional to the cause. They used it as a training ground for new fascists. Enter the military, be wowed by the stories of glory of old, and by the time you're an officer, you're a fascist.
The takeover was then complete and the rest of the genocide is history. As for the "scientists" of Germany, many true scientists fled to other nations for fear of being tools of the corrupt government. Einstein and Werner von Braun were such. I believe Oppenheimer was also. The "scientists" employed by the nazis were no scientists but mystic psychopaths attempting to conduct their ancient germanic magic in twisted ways. Much of the "race" studies were doctored intentionally to spread propaganda in hopes of convincing more to join the cause. I have read several of those documents in my course on European 1700-1950 history, and German History.
Anything else you want to know? I left out much to save myself the effort of typing all day.
