OT: Debate Thread

I'm glad to see that you're involved--unfortunately, I've been reading in HR magazines that problems are still ongoing. Studies still show that women's career progression is stunted in comparison to men and that women still bear a greater burden at home even with the same at-work hours. I wish more people had the involvement that you do with your child, but I still don't think it's the norm yet. And yes, the discrimination against full-time fathers is horrible--yet another reason I think many men don't want to be thought of as having family responsibility!
 
Uh oh, not an HR magazine... ;)

I personally can't see why social acceptance dictates fatherly behavior, but that's just me. I say screw 'em all - my kids come first!

I think starting a family is a huge decision a couple must make on their own, and one of the two will need to throttle back their career in order to devote more time to the home. My best man from my wedding married in '02. He's a VP with a telecom firm at 36 and his wife is in her mid-20's working at a law firm (as a lawyer). They rarely see each other aside from the vacation here and there. They have chosen to hold off on kids at the moment to devote their energies to their careers (they need some of that energy diverted to each other, in my opinion). They're raking in some serious dough and getting a huge nest egg going. When it's time, they'll start a family with a great bank set up. I think that's a great way to do things, but one can only hope that they both realize once they have a child one of their careers will change. The traditional view is for the woman to go back to the household, yes, but the decision will be up to them.
 
I don't see why the whole brunt of the sacrifice has to fall on one or the other, though...you'd think it could be a little more even. In some countries there's already better balance; in Scandinavian nations from what I've read, it's not at all unusual for both parents to demand that their companies accomodate them--and since everyone's doing it, not just one gender or another, the companies pretty much have to roll with it or else not have ANY workers. ;)
 
ABQShredHead said:
Yeah, and in some countries they get like three months of vacation a year...

It would be interesting to find out if they're more productive than their American counterparts when they ARE at work...
 
ABQShredHead said:
No offense, but this view is somewhat antiquated. Definitely, 10 years ago, this view was very valid. Today, men take FMLA quite regularly. I took three weeks off after my son was born. My wife works from home, so I may not be the best example for this argument; however, she has a long day with the now eight-week old, and our four-year-old spends mornings at pre-school. I drive her to my parents' house so grandpa can take her to her school. When I get home from work, I typically make dinner and ensure everybody, including my tired nursing wife, is fed. Then my daughter gets her bath, teeth brushed, a story reading, and a round of sing song in the rocking chair. After I put her down to bed, I prepare my son's bath, bathe him, outfit him in his pajamas, and hand him over to my wife so he can nurse, and she puts him down for bed. During this time, I clean the cats' litter box and then feed the cats. We have about an hour for chit-chat before we go to bed around 11:00. I am awake every two hours to change my son's diapers and help my wife prepare for nursing. Then I'm up at 6:00 to shower and eat breakfast before waking my daughter up at 6:45 to get her dressed, fed, and primped for pre-school. We leave the house at 7:20-7:30 each morning.

Pretty busy schedule. If my wife worked outside the house, I'm sure we'd manage.

I saw a report the other day that showed many women are exiting the workplace to spend more time at home. I think that's brilliant! Not because I'm sexist and not because I feel the woman's place is in the home; quite the contrary, I think women bring much to the table at the workplace. As noted in the above examples, women and men have extremely different viewpoints, and this diversity typically sets the table for an enlightened, functional workplace. My overall point is that America's culture is collapsing because traditional home values have been forefeited at the expense of double-income parenting. Bring back our old-fashioned family values and this country may again be great. Nowadays, parents are much to self-promoting and self-serving, all too often pawning off their parenting to public schools, nannies, and day care centers while the real parents are fulfilling their own desires, wishes, and self needs. Parenting, like marriage, has been corrupted by the needs of self-fulfillment and entitlement all too present in modern American society.

I've known many men who have left the workplace to be the full-time parent as well. If you feel discrimination in the workplace is high for women who are parents, you should see the down-gazing at men who play the role of Mr. Mom in social cirlces.

can we have more men like you in the world??
 
ABQShredHead said:
No offense, but this view is somewhat antiquated. Definitely, 10 years ago, this view was very valid. Today, men take FMLA quite regularly. I took three weeks off after my son was born. My wife works from home, so I may not be the best example for this argument; however, she has a long day with the now eight-week old, and our four-year-old spends mornings at pre-school. I drive her to my parents' house so grandpa can take her to her school. When I get home from work, I typically make dinner and ensure everybody, including my tired nursing wife, is fed. Then my daughter gets her bath, teeth brushed, a story reading, and a round of sing song in the rocking chair. After I put her down to bed, I prepare my son's bath, bathe him, outfit him in his pajamas, and hand him over to my wife so he can nurse, and she puts him down for bed. During this time, I clean the cats' litter box and then feed the cats. We have about an hour for chit-chat before we go to bed around 11:00. I am awake every two hours to change my son's diapers and help my wife prepare for nursing. Then I'm up at 6:00 to shower and eat breakfast before waking my daughter up at 6:45 to get her dressed, fed, and primped for pre-school. We leave the house at 7:20-7:30 each morning.

Pretty busy schedule. If my wife worked outside the house, I'm sure we'd manage.

I saw a report the other day that showed many women are exiting the workplace to spend more time at home. I think that's brilliant! Not because I'm sexist and not because I feel the woman's place is in the home; quite the contrary, I think women bring much to the table at the workplace. As noted in the above examples, women and men have extremely different viewpoints, and this diversity typically sets the table for an enlightened, functional workplace. My overall point is that America's culture is collapsing because traditional home values have been forefeited at the expense of double-income parenting. Bring back our old-fashioned family values and this country may again be great. Nowadays, parents are much to self-promoting and self-serving, all too often pawning off their parenting to public schools, nannies, and day care centers while the real parents are fulfilling their own desires, wishes, and self needs. Parenting, like marriage, has been corrupted by the needs of self-fulfillment and entitlement all too present in modern American society.

I've known many men who have left the workplace to be the full-time parent as well. If you feel discrimination in the workplace is high for women who are parents, you should see the down-gazing at men who play the role of Mr. Mom in social cirlces.[/rant]
Brilliant.