of course metal is a violent music themed musical style. look at how violent the actualy music is. fast paced, heavy riffs, loud, brutal drumming....it doesnt necessarily make someone violent, but metal is a violent style of music,
Anger
- Thread starter judas69
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LORD_RED_DRAGON
New Metal Member
LORD_RED_DRAGON
New Metal Member
Susperia
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Devy_Metal said:
I agree on that.. I just don't agree that it "makes" people commit crimes of violence... And that's the opinion some have.
LORD_RED_DRAGON
New Metal Member
the idea of metal making people commit crimes is just as stupid as the idea that marylin manson was responsible for colombineSusperia said:
Well, I think it comes down to free will ..or the lack there of.
People think they are in control of their circumstances and how they think, act, react and feel ..and fundamentally, who they are in their own mind and in society. The reality of the matter is, that we are machines largely (if not entirely) derived from our environment ..one of which we had no hand in shaping.
It is not very hard to see that you are the product of the people and situations you lived with and went through .. and all of the issues (be it emotional or otherwise) that you have been exposed to over the many years of your life. The human brain if anything, is a learning machine ..
Music, like a parent, in early years may have a large impact on a childs developement. For example, growing up in a family that was emotionally and verbally abusive or just loud, do create children who experience the same problems as those who had been physically beaten or abused in their youth. This has been studied and shown.
Metal, is loud and aggressive ..everyone here agrees. The way a lot of people relate to music today is scary. I checked out the megadeth forums the other day and people adore Dave Mustaine as a God in there .. and you don't think music has any power over the people? It is an exteremly powerful medium, and those who pass it off as not possibly having any influence on our feelings and our thoughts enough to change the way we think and react in a situation or over the longterm, is to not see the larger picture.
Does the metal literally grab the hand of the person ..pulling it over the gun, loading it and having it take aim? Of course not .. no one is saying that. But short of that, I think people are drawn to music and the repetativeness of listening to it over and over does infact condition our thinking to some degree. In children, it would seem to be even more influencial.
I am reminded of an old article in the paper quoting a child who said, "I killed like RoboCop".
People think they are in control of their circumstances and how they think, act, react and feel ..and fundamentally, who they are in their own mind and in society. The reality of the matter is, that we are machines largely (if not entirely) derived from our environment ..one of which we had no hand in shaping.
It is not very hard to see that you are the product of the people and situations you lived with and went through .. and all of the issues (be it emotional or otherwise) that you have been exposed to over the many years of your life. The human brain if anything, is a learning machine ..
Music, like a parent, in early years may have a large impact on a childs developement. For example, growing up in a family that was emotionally and verbally abusive or just loud, do create children who experience the same problems as those who had been physically beaten or abused in their youth. This has been studied and shown.
Metal, is loud and aggressive ..everyone here agrees. The way a lot of people relate to music today is scary. I checked out the megadeth forums the other day and people adore Dave Mustaine as a God in there .. and you don't think music has any power over the people? It is an exteremly powerful medium, and those who pass it off as not possibly having any influence on our feelings and our thoughts enough to change the way we think and react in a situation or over the longterm, is to not see the larger picture.
Does the metal literally grab the hand of the person ..pulling it over the gun, loading it and having it take aim? Of course not .. no one is saying that. But short of that, I think people are drawn to music and the repetativeness of listening to it over and over does infact condition our thinking to some degree. In children, it would seem to be even more influencial.
I am reminded of an old article in the paper quoting a child who said, "I killed like RoboCop".
The problem is, not everyone feels that strongly about it. I love metal...very very much. However, my favorite band has changed 4 times in the last 2 years. Anymore its Children of Bodom...but god knows that will probably change any time soon. So for those of us who dont worship the musician/band, its just something we listen to because we enjoy it. If thats the case, the music isnt having ANY effect on our personality.judas69 said:
Id also go so far as to predict that people who listen to violent music and commit violent acts would be violent anyway. Music or no music. In that sense, the music did absolutely nothing, except reinforce how they felt already. Kind of like a hardcore neocon listening to Rush Limbaugh.
Well, switching between metal bands does not make you invulerable to the affects of violent and aggressive music.
And to your second point, there are only two real perspectives here.
(1) Violent people who seek out violence in society in the form of music, movies, games etc, or (2) violence in society shaping the person towards aggressiveness.
I definitely see it both ways ..and more-so when child development is concerned. There is reasoning behind our current ratings systems for movies and games etc.
And to your second point, there are only two real perspectives here.
(1) Violent people who seek out violence in society in the form of music, movies, games etc, or (2) violence in society shaping the person towards aggressiveness.
I definitely see it both ways ..and more-so when child development is concerned. There is reasoning behind our current ratings systems for movies and games etc.
And what affects are those? Are you claiming that I have to be affected by the music I listen to? A nonviolent pacificist is being affected by listening to black metal? Im sorry but I think you are wrong. My music doesnt affect me at all. In fact, as someone else said earlier, its calming for me. I often listen to metal right before I go to sleep. I think at the very least it is more about each person individually. I know that metal doesnt make me more aggressive, but maybe it does for someone else?judas69 said:
As for the other point, I dont think the second one works, at least not in general. I grew up on super violent video games like Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter and all the other worse stuff. Yet somehow I turned out fine. I think it has alot more to do with parenting than the tv or videogames they play. Bad parenting leads to a kid who confuses tv/videogame violence with the real thing. Good parenting, I think, prevents it. Same goes with music, I suspect. Though I admit that it seems like kids are being exposed to things at younger and younger ages, and who knows what affects that has? But then I could also argue that those same kids are only exposed because parents let them, which goes back to parenting for me.
LORD_RED_DRAGON
New Metal Member
i still stand by this^^^ but i think i have to explain it a littleLORD_RED_DRAGON said:
there are some people who would end up killing (or at least being violent with) people (instead of animals) even if they had never been exposed to any type of music whatsoever these are the people who seek out the music with violent themes (moreso rap than metal really) which can (in some people) amplify already existing homicidal tendancies but the music in-and-of-itself cannot CREATE those tendancies (there has to be a homicidal instinct to begin with) there are some people who can be exposed to the most violent murder endorsing songs (rap & metal albums/music videos mortal kombat-type video games "slasher" movies underground videos that advertise themselves as being "to graphic to show in theaters" ) and still never become violent in any way whatsoever
in the specific colombine instance it really wasn't the music at all i think any random person going through the hellishness that those kids went through would have done the same thing it's just that those kids actually had the ability to do it instead of just thinking about it
the thing that pisses me off though is not the guns or the death but the bomb that didn't go off if the bomb had gone off and actually killed everyone at the school the 4 parents of dylan and eric would never have known that their kids were involved to quote eminem "where were the parents at?"
LORD_RED_DRAGON
New Metal Member
humans are evil...judas69 said:
well sort of...
if you want to go into biology then several people on this forum would say that humans are a violent species... that we kill (serial killers killing people/others killing animals and calling it "hunting") for the same sub-concious reason that a wolf will kill just about anything except (and sometimes including) other wolves
(insert reference to Richard Dawkins here)
So .. we are more instinctual than we would like to believe? I could buy that .. but, What makes a person just lose it and kill someone, despite the laws of our society?
Do you not agree that the environment you grow up in is a large basis for your personality and choices later on in life?
Do you not agree that the environment you grow up in is a large basis for your personality and choices later on in life?
LORD_RED_DRAGON
New Metal Member
well sometimes it could actually be BECAUSE of the laws of society... laws don't work...monarchy doesn't work because "power corrupts and absolute power corupts absolutely" but majority rule doesn't work either because "when you have majority rule you'll always have 5 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what to have for dinner" (larry flynt talking when the religious right protesting pornography started protesting "Hustler" in specific by saying that it was so much more objectionable than Hugh Heffner's "Playboy") i still remember this quote to this day because i think the quote is pretty much applicable to everything if you think about itjudas69 said:
for example the "civil" rights movement was called "civil" rights instead of "black" rights because the movement didn't happen untill the 100th aniversary of the end of the "civil" war... why weren't the black people equal to the whites when "Lincoln freed the slaves"??? numbers pure and simple math the number of blacks that died was more than the number of whites so that at the end of the war the pecentage of blacks to whites was smaller than what it is today which is 14% according to the us census but because of the sex revolution and black rights happening simutaniously that 14% number is bogus because it's counting all the people that are labeled "black" on their driver's licences the real number of blacks is only 12 or perhaps as small as 10% the rest are the mullattos that look black instead of looking white and (sadly) a ridiculously large number of those don't even know that they are half white until after highschool because they are raised with black aunt uncle grand parents where they are exposed to (and subsequently become) black people that think they are superior to white people and the number of blacks plus the number of whites will always be a lot smaller than the number of white supremisist neo-nazis it's a matter of math pure and simple
the reason that gay marriage hasn't happened is because the gay genes are RECCESSIVE so that the number of gay people was as small as the number of people with pure-blue eyes (i'm talking an almost purple, not green or color changing) up until about 1900 when gay guys started getting married to lesbians younger and having more children than straights as part of their attempts to appear straight, but even today with gay guys giving their sperm to inpregnate lesbians through in-vitro fertilization, gay marriage hasn't become legal because the number of gays plus the number of lesbians is still smaller than the number of psychotic homophobics, again it's easy math pure and simple
if you read the constitution the way it was written in 1776 income tax as it exists today is illegal under the "invasion of privacy" and "illegal taxation" ammendments it didn't exist as we know it today till lincoln invented it to give guns and winter clothes and food to the north without income tax the south would have won but the way lincoln wrote it the income tax would exist only durring war and every single penny of it would go into making the military powerfull enough to defeat the enemy
in the USA if a person is under the legal drinking age, uses a fake ID to get into a singles bar and and reaches orgasm with a person who actually is old enough to drink (18 or 21 depending on what state you're in) and if the younger, orgasming, person is also under the legal age of sexual consent (14-18 depending on what state you're in) then the older person is guilty of "statutory rape" which is pretty much getting arrested for making somebody reach orgasm when they weren't chronologicaly old enough to legally reach orgasm
i could go on and on and on but the point is the reason that the laws don't work because they are "absolute laws" that don't make any attempt to measure mallicious intent as opposed to "moral relativism" or "moralistic relativity" or whatever that system's called where the people try to figure out the explination of why a person did a crime and assign punishment based on whether or not there was any "mallicious intent"
LORD_RED_DRAGON
New Metal Member
LORD_RED_DRAGON
New Metal Member
that's really good cuz i don't think anyone else will get it... it kinda looks like i just went totaly crazy...judas69 said:
