Anyone else think New Opeth is better?

[no country for old wainds]

No.

 

[no country for old wainds]

It's great, but no, MAYH is God, with Morningrise second in command.

 

[Matrim]

No. The "new" Opeth is still great but MAYH and Morningrise just seem better to me than the rest.

 

[Dev]

'I also think that the interplay between the guitars is much more interesting in the newer stuff'No . It's the major drawback of Deliverance , it's overplayed .

 

[Dev]

Ahh well, the first Opeth album I ever owned or had the pleasure to listen to was Blackwater Park which is an amazing album, but since then I have become more a fan of Still Life and Deliverance. I have only been listening to Opeth since BWP came out so that may be the reason I am partial to the newer stuff.

I have listend to Morningrise and Orchid numerous times and I would have to say that they are far below everything from MAYH or in musical content. On the songs on those albums the band will play a series of riffs and completely stop and go into an acoustic part which if isolated from the song and played seperately (as in a different track all together) would share little relationship to the song it was taken from. I would even argue that you could switch mix the songs up and they would be no better or worse for it. (of course I realize there are musical parts that MUST be there, but im refering to Orchid more than Morningrise in this particular instance.)

I also think that the interplay between the guitars is much more interesting in the newer stuff. (I will include MAYH with my definition of "newer stuff".. yes I know its a bland and general term to use) On Orchid and Morningrise, Peter and Mikael generally playing beautiful, blistering harmonized melodies sometimes with one altering the rythmic pattern and placement of the said notes to create tension, something we all know is important to Opeth's music.
From MAYH on there seems to be an effort to move away from that and to move into what is in my opinion more interesting guitar interplay. While the newer music is in no way lacking in harmonized melodies, there is more of a focus on having one guitar play and outline and play actually chords, while one guitar focuses on creating melody. This evolution in the music may just be due to the fact that Opeth seems more willing to explore multitracking options in the studio, or it may actually be a caculated move. I think that much of Opeth's earlier music could be better associated with Iron Maiden ( some of the lighter parts on Orchid sound as if they are kin to Rime of the Ancient Mariner; not a bad thing of course ) than to modern progressive rock acts.

With all that being said, as long as you enjoy the music, no matter what the time period, band, heaviness, non heaviness ect., it doesnt really matter what I or any of message board jackass thinks

Feel free to criticize my post in the fullest. I am always open to new ideas and perspectives that can change the way I think about something.

Yeah , but most of the bands >>>>>>Iron Maiden >>> Most Prog' Rock.
So , this comparison is pointless .

 

[Ermz]

In fact, even on the later material could you grab an acoustic passage, and without its lead-in use it in a different song to the same effect. The main drawback to Orchid that makes people feel its 'riff-patching' is that the transcending from one riff to another isn't done very smoothly. The newer material has smoother interludes and riff lead-ins, whereas Orchid would say, have just an Em chord played by both guitars fade out and then have an acoustic passage come in, making it sound very patchy. But I assure you, Opeth most likely write riff-by-riff and THEN arrange their material afterwards even in the new era... it's just that now they like to make the riffs flow better once they are arranged.

The thing that captivates me around Orchid is the fact that its so raw... that its so unorganized. I like my local metal scene, and I like old-school metal and Orchid is just so reminescent to me of all these things BECAUSE of the fact that the band didn't spend years arranging the parts, but because the emphasis is on the riffs themselves. And I mean, we haven't seen anything alike to Orchid from Opeth since it was made. Orchid was the material that they pretty much spent the longest time working on... years before the band truly 'happened'.

I understand that listening to something that unorganized and seemingly meandering might not interest alot of people, and that's fine, personal prefference and all. But I love Orchid... I can almost taste the feeling from that album every time I hear it, because its so raw, and there's this undescribable passion in the riffs, even if they are relatively simple ideas executed to make them seem alot more complex than they really are.

It's this form of laying their music that Opeth used to have that made them so unique. What do Opeth have that's unique now? Rhythm/Lead passages? Sorry, that's been used in metal for decades now? Long songs? Yeah, coz they loop the one riff for 3 minutes (ie end of Deliverance). I think Still Life was the last truly great album from Opeth, but I can appreciate Blackwater Park too, seeing as it was an experimental thing that didn't turn out all too bad. However Deliverance soiled everything for me.

 

[DreamingofUr]

Yea man. Thats really why I can't ever name a favorite between the first two and the 3 that follow up. The riffs on the first two have so much power. The melodies in Forest of October, The Twilight is My Robe and Apostle In Triumph completely blow me away every time I hear them. Im not gonna lie, but those riffs just haven't been matched by shit I've ever heard. There is a certain rawness that gives an awesome atmosphere in the first two that I can't really feel in the others. Maybe MAYH too. So no. I don't think they are better but still at the top of their game.

 

[Prophetix]

I think Opeth ran out of material in the Deliverance writing sessions. So they just repeated the same mediocre riffs and melody lines twice or four times. Technical-wise the previous albums are superior to Deliverance by all means. Production-wise Deliverance is beautiful, no doubt. I dont think Opeth dumbed down their music for more mainstream success perpously, it happened accidentally; Mikael just ran out of ideas.

 

[Korlich]

I really can´t say. SL is my fav. but Orchid is my second fav. Deliverance is my least fav. MAYH is my second least fav. BWP and morningrise I enjoy almost equally.

 

[B Crouch]

BP was the first album i got and it has always been my favourite. I also like SL and Deliverance. My fav old album is morningrise.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

I think Opeth ran out of material in the Deliverance writing sessions. So they just repeated the same mediocre riffs and melody lines twice or four times. Technical-wise the previous albums are superior to Deliverance by all means. Production-wise Deliverance is beautiful, no doubt. I dont think Opeth dumbed down their music for more mainstream success perpously, it happened accidentally; Mikael just ran out of ideas.

how did Deliverance "dumb down their music for more mainstream success", purposely or unpurposley?

 

[Prophetix]

how did Deliverance "dumb down their music for more mainstream success", purposely or unpurposley?

Same simple riffs and melody lines repeating a million times each song.

 

[klownpoet]

Same simple riffs and melody lines repeating a million times each song.

The riffs may be a bit more simple melodically, but I think they are much more ferocious than anything released before my arms your hearse. In fact I think Deliverance is the heaviest album they have ever released.

 

[klownpoet]

In fact, even on the later material could you grab an acoustic passage, and without its lead-in use it in a different song to the same effect. The main drawback to Orchid that makes people feel its 'riff-patching' is that the transcending from one riff to another isn't done very smoothly. The newer material has smoother interludes and riff lead-ins, whereas Orchid would say, have just an Em chord played by both guitars fade out and then have an acoustic passage come in, making it sound very patchy. But I assure you, Opeth most likely write riff-by-riff and THEN arrange their material afterwards even in the new era... it's just that now they like to make the riffs flow better once they are arranged.

The thing that captivates me around Orchid is the fact that its so raw... that its so unorganized. I like my local metal scene, and I like old-school metal and Orchid is just so reminescent to me of all these things BECAUSE of the fact that the band didn't spend years arranging the parts, but because the emphasis is on the riffs themselves. And I mean, we haven't seen anything alike to Orchid from Opeth since it was made. Orchid was the material that they pretty much spent the longest time working on... years before the band truly 'happened'.

I understand that listening to something that unorganized and seemingly meandering might not interest alot of people, and that's fine, personal prefference and all. But I love Orchid... I can almost taste the feeling from that album every time I hear it, because its so raw, and there's this undescribable passion in the riffs, even if they are relatively simple ideas executed to make them seem alot more complex than they really are.

It's this form of laying their music that Opeth used to have that made them so unique. What do Opeth have that's unique now? Rhythm/Lead passages? Sorry, that's been used in metal for decades now? Long songs? Yeah, coz they loop the one riff for 3 minutes (ie end of Deliverance). I think Still Life was the last truly great album from Opeth, but I can appreciate Blackwater Park too, seeing as it was an experimental thing that didn't turn out all too bad. However Deliverance soiled everything for me.

I can appreciate your own appreciation for the rawness of Orchid, but it is precisely the riff patching that makes me less interested in that Cd than the others. Dont get me wrong, I totally love Orchid. It has some of my favorite riffs in it but no matter how many times I listen to it I still dont think it could ever be my favorite Opeth album.

After listening to all the albums many times over the past few years, I think that Opeth can be divided into 3 different eras. The first being Orchid and Morningrise followed by the Still Life, Black Water Park Era( I think that MAYH acts like a bridge between the two eras, though I think it shares a closer relationship to Still Life and BWP than to Morningrise and Orchid) followed by what you have now being Deliverance and Damnation, though those two albums share little relationship too each other stylisticly.

Everyone is waiting to see what direction Opeth will take next. Your guess is as good as mine, but whatever they do I am sure that it will be top quality.

I might also add that I didnt even hear Opeth until the release of Blackwater Park so I am sure that add to my bias for the later albums. I can totally understand how someone who has been listening to them since the early 1990's could like the earlier material more.

By the way thanks for all of the great posts. Im glad to see an intelligent discussion going on here amongst very intelligent music fans. I really do enjoy hearing all of your perspectives on Opeth.

 

[mbarys]

I didn't like Orchid and Morningrise at first, but it grew on me. One reason was probably because I went backwards in their discography listening to Deliverence first and then Blackwater Park, etc. Funny cuz the other day I was driving and had my Opeth CD on shuffle and heard Advent first, then Blackwater Park and thought to myself, damn, his death voice is soooo much better in the later records. It's seems more polished and evil. I like the records from MAYH and on better, but Blackwater Park and Deliverence are tight as hell.

Matt

 

[ViCyniC]

I think Opeth ran out of material in the Deliverance writing sessions. So they just repeated the same mediocre riffs and melody lines twice or four times. Technical-wise the previous albums are superior to Deliverance by all means. Production-wise Deliverance is beautiful, no doubt. I dont think Opeth dumbed down their music for more mainstream success perpously, it happened accidentally; Mikael just ran out of ideas.

Deliverance is one of the *harder* Opeth albums to get into. They didn't make it mainstream, purposely or accidentally.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

Same simple riffs and melody lines repeating a million times each song.

every Opeth album has their share of simple and complex riffs, deliverance is no exception. deliverance has no more "simple" riffs than MAYH or Still Life, but why should that even matter? i don't judge riffs by their complexity, rather what sounds good. That Master's Apprentice riff is killer.

and i think you are exaggeratting about the repetition a little too much, a song like Wreath is quite complex.

and so there you have it.... "more mainstream acceptance"? what, is some Korn kid gonna say..... "alright, that riff right there isn't very complex like Opeth's old albums, i like it now!"

 

[DreamingofUr]

I can appreciate your own appreciation for the rawness of Orchid, but it is precisely the riff patching that makes me less interested in that Cd than the others. Dont get me wrong, I totally love Orchid. It has some of my favorite riffs in it but no matter how many times I listen to it I still dont think it could ever be my favorite Opeth album.

After listening to all the albums many times over the past few years, I think that Opeth can be divided into 3 different eras. The first being Orchid and Morningrise followed by the Still Life, Black Water Park Era( I think that MAYH acts like a bridge between the two eras, though I think it shares a closer relationship to Still Life and BWP than to Morningrise and Orchid) followed by what you have now being Deliverance and Damnation, though those two albums share little relationship too each other stylisticly.

Everyone is waiting to see what direction Opeth will take next. Your guess is as good as mine, but whatever they do I am sure that it will be top quality.

I might also add that I didnt even hear Opeth until the release of Blackwater Park so I am sure that add to my bias for the later albums. I can totally understand how someone who has been listening to them since the early 1990's could like the earlier material more.

By the way thanks for all of the great posts. Im glad to see an intelligent discussion going on here amongst very intelligent music fans. I really do enjoy hearing all of your perspectives on Opeth.

I don't think that they patched things together on the first two albums at all because they flow just as good or even better then the later albums. I totally agree with the eras you spoke of too. MAYH has always stood out from all the other albums and the others seem like they should have been dual CD releases. I really can't wait for their next album. I haven't been posting long either but I favor the earlier releases too.

 

[DreamingofUr]

every Opeth album has their share of simple and complex riffs, deliverance is no exception. deliverance has no more "simple" riffs than MAYH or Still Life, but why should that even matter? i don't judge riffs by their complexity, rather what sounds good. That Master's Apprentice riff is killer.

and i think you are exaggeratting about the repetition a little too much, a song like Wreath is quite complex.

and so there you have it.... "more mainstream acceptance"? what, is some Korn kid gonna say..... "alright, that riff right there isn't very complex like Opeth's old albums, i like it now!"

ROFL!! I couldnt have said it better myself. Mainstream success?? Yea, I'm sure the same people who couldn't stand those 9 minute songs from BWP are gonna love the 10 minute+ because of those riffs. And I can imagine the radio playing those 10 minute songs instead of advertising some bullshit band or product. They must have just missed the boat if the radio isn't playing em yet.

 

[Ermz]

I don't know who's equating Opeth's more redundant material on the recent release with commercial success. That's definately not the case.