are any guys of opeth satanists?

What is so confusing about complexity emerging from (relative) simplicity? It has been observed that such a thing occurs constanly in nature. Life itself emerges because of the special property of carbon to form increasingly complex bonds with itself. In fact even in a state of entropy there will be regions of lower entropy within the bigger area that will randomly form order with no needed energy or information input.

Basically we have enough scientific data that even if there is a God or gods they really have jack shit to do other than maybe "masturbate on the golden throne."

Anyway stating that just because your common sense doesn't belive that matter can randomly spawn is an argument form ignorance where you basically state you don't understand how it could happen therefore there is a God. No personal offense intended. All you chaps seem like rather nice people. But as I said I'm an atheist and have yet to see anything which doesn't have a natural explanation. Even if we can't explain with science everything there is doesn't mean there is a supernatural "Big Poppa in the Sky." trademark me. as of now
 
RookParliament said:
Basically we have enough scientific data that even if there is a God or gods they really have jack shit to do other than maybe "masturbate on the golden throne."
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Strange choice of words, but you have my support. "God and the New Physics" by Paul Davies is a pretty good book on this subject. It's from the early 80s, which goes to show that the uselessness of God isn't a new concept. The fact that an intelligence wasn't needed to "create" the universe doesn't mean that religion isn't important though. As a social phenomenon, it's very useful and meaningful to billions of people. It shouldn't be cast aside as a bunch of lies.
Yet, like I said earlier, it gets tedious when people try to introduce religious concepts into publicly-funded institutions. And don't even get me started on the bullshit that is the Middle East. How many more of our tax dollars are going to continue to be wasted on Israel? Or Iraq? Or Iran? All those problems are religious in nature. But as long as we can be friends with the nuclear-powered Jews and keep driving our 12 mpg SUVs, that shit will go on and on. Suddenly religion stops being an interesting anthropological study and it becomes the source of suffering and death for countless people.
 
the irony of the world is that christianity began in the middle east. yet now its viewed as "western" religion.

i agree that public institutions (mainly government) should avoid taking sides in religious matters. faith is a choice of each individual and shouldn't be forced upon anyone, or taken from anyone.

as for the comment about ignorance, i think it is ignorant to believe the inverse of that as well, so i don't really see a connection. i believe A, you believe B. that's cool with me. its not just because of the complexity of the universe, or that there's this book about stuff that happened 2 millennia ago, but that i testify that i've seen it in action here and now. thats my deal. doesn't have to be yours.

ps: SUVs and stretch limos are incredibly lame
 
Silent Song said:
thats my deal. doesn't have to be yours.
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Stop being so reasonable and accepting of other people's beliefs. You are ruining my stereotype of Christians.
 
I wasn't stating that you personally are ignorant Silent Song. I don't personally know there is no God nor do I doubt that I will never know. And as I've never experienced what you say you have experienced so I can't judge your anecdotal evidence. However there is evidence and actual research into how all these various "theories" actually give a picture of reality. The Big Bang, Evolution, so on have thousands of pages of corraborating evidence and those same theories also predict what we observe in nature before we observed it, eg. the relatively uniform background radiation that the universe has was predicted by the Big Bang theory. All God has is a few holy books and the belief of the majority of humanity.

I know I more than likely won't change your mind, and the fact you are open to discussion I respect but there are just some things that cannot be doubted, such as evolution. Damn those ID bullshitters trying to force their crap into our schools here in the US.

Anyway I think I'm not even addressing anything you are saying in more than a roundabout way, but thank goodness that there are actually believing Christians out there that make it impossible for me to use generalized statements such as "Stupid fucking Christians."

The "masturbating on the golden throne" is a Bathory lyric I more than likely misqouted and certainly used it out of context.
 
i just don't buy the big bang theory. i'm a big fan of astronomy and science, but not without an inquisitive mind.

that the universe was all contained in some infinitely small (or close to that) mass that suddenly got too big for itself and boom "stuff" flies everywhere, spins and cools and becomes what we know today seems a little far fetched.

do you think that there was a previous universe that collapsed into that singularity that caused the big bang? if not, then how did all that stuff get there in the first place.

as for the evidence that God exists, well aside from biblical texts and other people's belief in Him, i have seen and known things in my own life that i believe are the work of God. that's evidence enough for me. i find myself sometimes questioning my belief, and finding reassurance in that questioning when i affirm it again and again.
 
speaking of god, here's a good section of dialogue from the SP movie :lol:

The Mole: "I can't help you. I'm grounded in my room for the next three days."
Kyle: "So are we. Our parents think we're home right now."
Stan: "Why are you grounded?"
The Mole: "Why? Because God hates me, that's why. He has made my life miserable. So I call him a cock-sucking asshole, and I get grounded."
 
Argument from ignorance is the official term for the fallacy you are commiting Silent Song. Because it seems far-fetched to you does not mean it is wrong. The Big Bang has actual scientific evidence, from the observations of Edwin Hubble who discovered cosmological red shift showing that space is expending, to the background radiation we observe emanating relatively uniform from the outer reaches of the universe, to the fact like any successful theory it stands up to all the evidence we have, makes predictions that pan out, and provides a useful and practical view of the universe. Its still an evolving theory but it is one of the most succesful scientific theories we have, maybe coming up short only to evolution.
 
funny that you underestimate me. i took classes in astronomy, i understand the theory and what it's based on and what it implies. i just don't buy it. that's all there is to it.

it's not ignorance it's not fallacy, its disbelief. the evidence is simply not enough for me. just in the same way that the evidence for God is not enough for some people to just believe.

i'm not saying i don't think space is expanding, that red shift is real, or background radiation etc. i just don't believe it all came from one big boom.
 
I just think Akerfeldt's a musician-philosopher. I see a lot of consciousness of good and evil in opeth's lyrics and music. A. even looks so balanced when he talks (except in concerts... he has to do that to excite the audience), so self-controlled. I really admire his person. I think he tends to the nietzschean philosophy. Just a personal guess. :)
 
Silent Song said:
i just don't buy the big bang theory. i'm a big fan of astronomy and science, but not without an inquisitive mind.

that the universe was all contained in some infinitely small (or close to that) mass that suddenly got too big for itself and boom "stuff" flies everywhere, spins and cools and becomes what we know today seems a little far fetched.

do you think that there was a previous universe that collapsed into that singularity that caused the big bang? if not, then how did all that stuff get there in the first place.

as for the evidence that God exists, well aside from biblical texts and other people's belief in Him, i have seen and known things in my own life that i believe are the work of God. that's evidence enough for me. i find myself sometimes questioning my belief, and finding reassurance in that questioning when i affirm it again and again.
Click to expand...


That's the best thing i've read all day. I fully agree.
 
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