Atheism (Do you believe in God? If yes, then why?)

[Alongside Death]

My personal opinion about faith:
I do not believe in god because of the miracles that were in the bible like virgin mary that actually had a son called Jesus Christ and his resurrection. Those things are impossible when you look at them in a scientific way, it is only a matter of faith. Christian religion says that we have to believie in Jesus to recieve eternal life after death. I also do not believe in god because of the... hmmm... "random location of birth". I could be born in Irac, I could be a muslim and kill people to call myself a martyr and be sure of eternal wealth and peace after death. Why people have to experience stress, pain and sadness if life is a transitional stage to eternal life? And another thing, when christ lived only rich people could read and write therefore christ history was passed by his students only verbally. Many things of christ history could be changed in effect many of those things could be fake. That is my opinion about faith in god. I am an atheist therefore I do not believe in life after death. I am only 17, maybe I will grow up and eventually believe in god but I don't thinks so.

My questions are:
- Do you believe in god?
- If so then explain why do you believe in him?

 

[OldScratch]

Just an interesting aside I cannot resist: the christian concept of free will and the rational economic man or the basic tenets of American-style capitalism have almost merged into one, creating the guiding dogma or theological belief of American Christianity.

Im sorry all for my anti-money/materialism rants. It just seems Im surrounded by greedy materialists these days. Moved to a new city and all. Its just amazing how many totally oblivious and materialistic people Ive met. My god the Mormon I work with seems almost like the only sane non-greed crazed person Ive come across. And Ive read parts of that Mormon bible, and whew, I dont know how a religion was spawned from such fairy tales.

Quite true. For all its many faults, Christianity has proven to be nothing if not an almost infinitely adaptable faith/ideology; alternately serving Crusader, Pacifist, Conqueror, Abolitionist and Klansman alike. Recently I have read of so-called "Rainbow Masses" being held in local churches, welcoming openly homosexual celebrants, etc. Thus, it is no real surprise that the unofficial Capitalist denomenation of Christianity has flourished as well. So much for all that scriptural clap-trap about the "camel passing through the eye of a needle" and the condemnation of wealth, so on and so forth. Yes, it is a curiously materialistic "faith" to which the modern acolyte clings.

 

[Øjeblikket]

We possess developed cognitive ability, allowing us to not only survive but CREATE.

Tempting fatalism to define nature according to its human element, Nile.

"Survival" does not need to be understood in harsh terms such as the overcoming of brutal circumstances, the enduring and conquering of strife and etc. It is simply seeking to continue oneself. And I would say that the more common denominator is survival, rather than duty to one's social context (which is a decisively human predicament).

to reiterate:

"That is, I think behaviour should be modified by a recognition of its universal context." - Nile

This may work in the context of humanity's potential, but consider it in the context of a lion that kills its own offspring to send a lioness into heat and it seems almost hippy-bent.

I would say that more of life, which includes such things as frogs, trees, flowers, and anything else that grows, is living via roots oriented towards surviving -- that is, interested in continuing and increasing its own livelihood. Apply that to the human condition and will-to-will is less abnormal.

In case anyone either hasn't been following this or thinks I'm ranting inconclusively, this is what I'm studying:

"Nature suggests a protocol for life." - OG Nile

What is her protocol?

Survival or Manners

circle one.

 

[Øjeblikket]

Also, Nile, before we consider the importance of developing and maintaining our creative potential, consider how many people are truly excited by going to a burger joint with slides out front, or even better, shooting an incredibly beautiful and horned animal in the woods just because it's what they do for sport.

 

[Seditious]

- Do you believe in god?

no, whether you just mean Yahweh as your post refers to, or God in general, no I don't, I'm a firm Atheist (writing an essay on why since there seems to be little understanding of the good warrant for Atheism)

 

[Seditious]

Also, Nile, before we consider the importance of developing and maintaining our creative potential, consider how many people are truly excited by going to a burger joint with slides out front, or even better, shooting an incredibly beautiful and horned animal in the woods just because it's what they do for sport.

yeh, it's not exactly crocodile wrestling, and it's pretty sad that that sport could end adequately with shooting a tree. 'here I tracked the animal, I hunted it down, got a good shot, I've proved myself worthy for my ego satisfaction and had fun--and to prove what a good shot I am I cut off a tiny branch on an equally distant tree with precision.

no need to kill anything at the end unless you're actually one to really need the meat.

 

[Patrick R.]

My personal opinion about faith:
I do not believe in god because of the miracles that were in the bible like virgin mary that actually had a son called Jesus Christ and his resurrection.

Well, the thing is the worship of gods or just one god has been around a lot longer the belief of Jesus Christ. Christianity is a very young religion. Many things in the Holy Bible aren’t factually correct at all, however a the god of the Holy Bible is once again very recent.

Those things are impossible when you look at them in a scientific way, it is only a matter of faith. Christian religion says that we have to believie in Jesus to recieve eternal life after death. I also do not believe in god because of the... hmmm... "random location of birth". I could be born in Irac, I could be a muslim and kill people to call myself a martyr and be sure of eternal wealth and peace after death. Why people have to experience stress, pain and sadness if life is a transitional stage to eternal life? And another thing, when christ lived only rich people could read and write therefore christ history was passed by his students only verbally. Many things of christ history could be changed in effect many of those things could be fake. That is my opinion about faith in god. I am an atheist therefore I do not believe in life after death. I am only 17, maybe I will grow up and eventually believe in god but I don't thinks so.

My questions are:
- Do you believe in god?
- If so then explain why do you believe in him?

Well, the only written materials that have been found detailing the birth, life, and death of Jesus Christ are the New Testament gospels. The reason why Christianity is the number one religion right now is because of ancient Rome. When a Roman emperor came into power a cult that he favored would be very well known, with Constantine conversion to Christianity, that religion became well known. But once the Western Roman Empire collapsed it dies out but the white Christians of Europe (Charlemagne the Teutonic Knights etc) forced it upon other whites of Europe who never knew a thing about Christianity. I hope that answered a few of your questions, there is a lot of history to Christianity in Europe, I couldn't possibly type it all out.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Cool! I wrote a letter to him once, and he wrote back to me!

 

[ARC150]

It's surely an old issue to anyone so I don't expect this to turn into much of a thread...

This topic will always produce a response...

...And well it should - it is a topic that approaches the most fundamental constructs of existence itself; it will, I have to believe, remain the first and last question to be asked about all questions.

And it is belief that will remain the first and last argument of any such discussion.

I am fairly certain that I have read every major (and so many of several minor) text(s) detailing religion. I have spent countless hours with various members of various religions and attended innumerable services, rites and processions - all with the idea ascertaining a suitable answer to the question of the eternal.

In the end, I became aware of a very basic idea:

The idea of God can neither be proven nor disproven.

So many people, over the last few millenia, have had their hand at explaining the obviousness of God; just as many people have argued the opposite. Fact is, this is a subject that can not be resolved. So in the end, you have only your feelings.

This question can not be reasoned...well, it can...and has been...by stronger minds than all of us...and in the end, it is a stalemate.

It is not a question without an answer...but it is a question for which an answer is beyond us.

This leaves only a belief.

Once you have exhausted all arguments and you are left with the simple fact that you can't figure this one out, the only answer is the recognition of what you have always known.

You believe in God.
-or-
You do not believe in God.

 

[fah-q]

I just want to know what to say to an athiest when they sneeze.

 

[OldScratch]

Why "Gesundheit" of course! Particularly if you are a Heathen Kraut like me

 

[Seditious]

I just want to know what to say to an athiest when they sneeze.

ahCHOOO

 

[ARC150]

I just want to know what to say to an athiest when they sneeze.

"Be quiet! I'm trying to contemplate god."

 

[SoundMaster]

I just want to know what to say to an athiest when they sneeze.

"godlessness bless you" will usually suffice!

 

[fah-q]

"godlessness bless you" will usually suffice!

I like that, can I use it?
This actually reminded me of a guy I used to work with when I was going to college. He was "satanist", as that is what his friends were doing at the time. Whenever he sneezed, I would say "Bless you" and he would always reply "No thank you." Quite comical.
Dane Cook the comedian has a funny take on this. It is a little long but, worth it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3TnQ16leUE

 

[Dr.TEETH]

God doesn't believe in Athiests.

 

[Dominick_7]

I believe IN God because I KNOW God exists. To have an objectless faith IN an non thing is no real faith at all but illusion or falsehood. To have an object in whom one trusts is to have a real and substantial as well as meaningfull faith..not blind faith, but faith rested in fact.

All decisions one makes is usually done on the basis of a few facts based on some level of probabillity (crossing the st for ex), but if one is considering the ultimate qustion as to whether there is ultimate being, it suffices to say that one should have an ultimate ground upon which to ground ones ultimate committment in this ultimate being. To do anything less is to give what isnt ultimate (or what is less than ultimate), ones ultimate concern or committment. Thsi too would be unfounded or unjustifiable faith.

The reason I would contend there is a Theistic God, is because first of all other views (most reducible to Pantheism=God is the world, and Atheism= There is no God at all...no matter the a-Theists in here who would distract with a lack of belief view contrary to the philosophically traditional view of atheism) are meaningless at best or contradictory at worst.

Secondly the reason I would positively contend that there is a Theistic God is because his existence is both self evident and undeniable. Not to say you cant say he doesnt exist, or state "nah ahh" all day long..the difference is while you can formally state God doesnt exist, it is nevertheless not meaningfully affirmable to deny..Reason being is you must affirm (a theistic) Gods existence in the process of denying His existence. Therefore, while one can logically concieve of Him not existing (as you can with any contrary states of affairs..God exists God doesnt exist, I exist, I dont exist, zeus, pegasus, gremlins..etc..you can concieve of any contrary states of affair in you mind), His existence is neverthless actually inescapable. So its based not on purely logical inescapabillity but on actual undeniabillity that one can say this is true.

Simply I would argue that something contingent actually exists (IE "Me"). My existence is actually undeniable. I must actually exist to deny that I exist. Whatever is contingent exists potentially, that is it can exist, but it can also not exist if it does hapen to exist. Its potential to exist can only account for its potential existence not for its actual existence. It doesnt explain its own existence.

If you line up 10, 100, 1,000,000, or even an infinite amount of contingent beings, there still would be no explanation for their existence found in what is contingent, for since it cannot ground or explain its own existence, it cannot ground or explain the continued existence of another.

Since potential existence cannot account for actual existence, and if all that existed were contingent being, that would provide no ground or explanation for the actual existence of any contingent being that existed, it follows that there must be a non contingent actuality that exists to ground and explain why all contingent beings that exist, actually exist vs not exist.

So it must go back to something that doesnt exist just potentially, as in something that can or can not be, but must go back to something that must exist necessarily and cannot not be to ground and explain the existence of all that can or can not be. Only this kind of being is self explanatory, and thus can therefore explain all other beings it sustains in continued existence.

This necessary being is what Theists call God. Therefore a Theistic God exists.


All one does from here is unpack what a necessary being is, and argue back from what the effects have (namely reason, personhood, emotion, will etc), which can only be there contingently if they came from and preexisted in their cause, where they apply to the necessary being necessarily, and to the contingent effects contingently. If one unpacks what one means by a necessary being, you get a Theistic God.

I'm not about to give a whole argument for this right now, but if one wants to discuss this I think I can do so with the time I have. I'm almost done with another argument for the existence of God which I can post somewhere mayby at myspace soon when its done. Im on several boards so its difficult for me to keep up with all discussions. I do what I can when I can do it. I welcome any feedback. Have a great day.

 

[Dominick_7]

A quick formula I came up with recently is the following that kind of goes back to what I was describing.


1) Something contingent exists.

2) Every contingent being has a possibility to not exist

3) Whatever has a possibility to not exist must be currently caused to exist by another

4) If everything has a possibility to not exist, then a total state of nothiness is possible, but..

5) Nothing cannot produce (the) something (that now exists), so

6) Not everything can have a possibility to not exist, therefore

7) There must exist something that has no possibility to not exist ( IE: A being with no possibility to not be/no possibility to cease being=non-contingent= necessary being).

8) Since whatever has a possibility to not exist cannot cause its own existence, but must be caused to exist from beyond itself, it follows that..

9) That which exists beyond what is contingent, namely necessary being, must cause the continued existence of every contingent being that exists, but has a possibility to not exist.

10) This necessary being is what Theists call God, therefore

11) A theistic God exists.

 

[SoundMaster]

I'm a "retired theist", as I like to say. I was a believer for years. But for no other reason than that that was how I was raised. period.

But the simple fact remains that I've never seen/felt/experienced anythign which would lead me to believe that a deity exists. It's as simple as that.

 

[judas69]

God doesn't have a religion ..as they say.