Atheism (Do you believe in God? If yes, then why?)

[Έρεβος]

exactly. we know it comes from foolishness we have no reason to feel offended. and if the idiots are amused by their own foolishness, then everybody is happy.

Its especially fun to respond to a christian that asks your religion with:

"I am [according to your religion] a follower of a satanic, demon worshipping cult dedicated to burning churches, summoning demons, misleading the pure, placing curses on the innocent, and of course eating babies!"

 

[Norsemaiden]

Its especially fun to respond to a christian that asks your religion with:

"I am [according to your religion] a follower of a satanic, demon worshipping cult dedicated to burning churches, summoning demons, misleading the pure, placing curses on the innocent, and of course eating babies!"

And then tell them to give you all their money, because they have to give to he that asketh and expect nothing in return.

 

[derbeder]

Thus, besides those goddamn crazies from the Middle East, and very primitive peoples, much of the world already had slid into essentially atheistic religions and belief systems. And, it is entirely possible and perhaps even beneficial for the world to accept some form of atheistic--i.e. no creator god, divine arbriter of justice--religion.

Those goddamn crazies in the middle east are not much more fanatic than a good deal of the US population.

Why should there be a need for a great population of the world to accept some one religion? If there is no such need, it seems that there is also not much possibility of there being a common religion. For what is to unify the traditions? Collecting people under one religion is a difficult feat and can't really be accomplished unless people see some urgency for it. And it hardly seems possible without the use of state power.
There does not appear to be any such urgency in contemporary democratic societies. There are reasons to think that a just state is a secular one (this is a complicated issue and I won't take it up here). Hence in a just state, different religious beliefs can be accepted by different people, the state does not interfere with religious matters and does not allow such interference.
It seems better for all the states in the world to move more toward the realization of secularism (rather than keep the principle in the books and act with bias toward some one religion - as it seeems to be the case in the US)than toward a unification of their peoples under one common religion, theistic or not.

 

[Seditious]

Those goddamn crazies in the middle east are not much more fanatic than a good deal of the US population.

yep. It's always worth pointing out fundamentalist Islam has more in common with fundamentalist Christianity than other sects of Islam.

 

[Έρεβος]

yep. It's always worth pointing out fundamentalist Islam has more in common with fundamentalist Christianity than other sects of Islam.

In my readings of The Koran and The Christian Bible, the two religions seem nearly identical, especially in the core of the religions, differing only with minor superficial details. And actually, The Koran seems more well written, and having a bit more [though not much more] quality.

 

[Έρεβος]

And then tell them to give you all their money, because they have to give to he that asketh and expect nothing in return.

Hehe, yus.

 

[Norsemaiden]

In my readings of The Koran and The Christian Bible, the two religions seem nearly identical, especially in the core of the religions, differing only with minor superficial details. And actually, The Koran seems more well written, and having a bit more [though not much more] quality.

They were both originated by Jews. And both these religions, and Judaism are very patriarchal in nature, having one God, unlike the non-semitic religions.

Christianity, originally the Essene sect, was recognised by Paul of Tarsus (who started off really hating the Essenes - even the New Testament says how later the "scales fell from his eyes" and he had some sort of epiphany and decided to convert to Christianity) as having use as a brain bomb on their enemies, the Romans. Christianity is acredited as being one main reason for the downfall of ancient Rome, by historians including Gibbon.
Islam was made for non-white consumption. It was made aggressive so that it would have an ideology in this respect at odds with the passivity advocated by Christianity. It was intended to give the Muslims the capability to militarily defeat Christians. Islam has turned into something of a Frankenstein monster now, and is a threat not only to its intended target but also to its very creators!

http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/JewishDiscovery.htm
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-0279(193406)54:2<209:TJFOI>2.0.CO;2-#
"The Jewish Foundation of Islam"

Mohammed married a Jewess -
"Safiya bint Huyayy(ra)

She was a Jewess and taken captive during the Battle of Khaibar. Prophet Mohammed married her in 7 A.H. This made a great impact on the Jews, with the result that many accepted Islam."

Rather - they knew how they could mold it into a creed they could make use of.
http://path-to-peace.com/personalities.html

On whether or not Mohammed was a Jew, history is not clear. There is very liitle difference between the Semitic Jew and the Semitic Arab, apart from religious. Mohammed was certainly a Semite. That Jews had a major part in the promoting and spread of Mohammedansim is born out not only by events, but is something Jews often loudly proclaim.

It has to be more than cooincidence that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all originate in a relatively small area of Asia, extending from Palestine to adjoining Saudi Arabia, or in other words from Jerusalem to Mecca.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

In my readings of The Koran and The Christian Bible, the two religions seem nearly identical, especially in the core of the religions, differing only with minor superficial details. And actually, The Koran seems more well written, and having a bit more [though not much more] quality.

I disagree. There are some very key differences between the two religions, though there are obvious similarities due to having similar source material. And acutally I find the Bible to much more readable and engaging than the Koran.

 

[Silver Incubus]

Has anyone here even seen the documentry "The Naked Truth"? It deals with the origin of religion, from historical sources and shows that not only judaism and its off shoots of Islam and Christainty where based on such things as the egyption religion, plus the summerian and babalyonian beleifs.

Essentially, what the holy texts tell about is the story of the stars and how the sun moves through the signs of the zodiac. I know that may sound kinda like a wild claim, but it is supported not only by historical documents but from the religious texts themselves.
One really good example about how astrology is in the bible and religion is the symbol of the two fish. We are currently still in the age of pices, and the bible talks constantly about the end of the age, which is true in the sense that we will soon be moving into the age of aquarius. This is even supported by the bible. Called Astro-theology.
In Luke 22:10 "And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall be a man to meet you, bearing a pitcher of water, follow him into the house where he entereth in."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6410112404402873027&sourceid=docidfeed&hl=undefined

watch from 50 minutes about the proof of the zodiac.
the first bit of this goes through the many similaries that Jesus has with Horus, Crishna, Buddha. How many of the stories and motifs found in the bible are actually of older stories, relating to the signs of the zodiac. For instance the there are 12 apolstles that help jesus the son of god. That theme is held also in the egyption religion as well. It just so happens that the sun has 12 signs of the zodiac as well. If you know much about the egyptian religion you would know that Amen - Ra is the sun god. Ever notice how at the end of a prayer christians say Amen? Every wonder why they are worshiping a sun god at the end of their prayers?
Even the land of the jews is bassed off it. When the jews left egypt they took with them the myth of Isis and the God Ra, and when they moved north to palastine they also encorporated the worship of the Saturn god called "El"

from this we see how the land of IS-RA-EL was created.

I think it is important when talking about atheism and religion that you know a bit of the origins and history of it. Is it any wonder why they talk about heavenly bodies, that heaven is up in space, because they were always refering to the zodiac.
cheers hope this clears some misconceptions about these religions.
this is only a small bit of info, Its explained very throughouly in the documentry.

 

[derbeder]

I disagree. There are some very key differences between the two religions, though there are obvious similarities due to having similar source material. And acutally I find the Bible to much more readable and engaging than the Koran.

is that arvo part in your sig?

 

[Έρεβος]

They were both originated by Jews. And both these religions, and Judaism are very patriarchal in nature, having one God, unlike the non-semitic religions.

Christianity, originally the Essene sect, was recognised by Paul of Tarsus (who started off really hating the Essenes - even the New Testament says how later the "scales fell from his eyes" and he had some sort of epiphany and decided to convert to Christianity) as having use as a brain bomb on their enemies, the Romans. Christianity is acredited as being one main reason for the downfall of ancient Rome, by historians including Gibbon.
Islam was made for non-white consumption. It was made aggressive so that it would have an ideology in this respect at odds with the passivity advocated by Christianity. It was intended to give the Muslims the capability to militarily defeat Christians. Islam has turned into something of a Frankenstein monster now, and is a threat not only to its intended target but also to its very creators!

Christianity in ancient times seemed alot more agressive than Islam, I mean who initiated the crusades? Certainly the christians, and when there was peace between muslims and christians, and accepted coexistance, the christians are the ones that rejected and destroyed that peace. In moorish Spain; christianity, judaism, and islam, were all accepted even though the government was muslim. But then christians came in a conquered them [with much difficulty and fighting among themselves], eventually driving out or killing all muslims and jews. Islam throughout history has been much more peaceful and tollerant it seems. The current muslim world I guess is a monster, but a monster created by thousands of years of intollerance and hate from the Christian world.

 

[Patrick R.]

Christianity in ancient times seemed alot more agressive than Islam, I mean who initiated the crusades? Certainly the christians, and when there was peace between muslims and christians, and accepted coexistance, the christians are the ones that rejected and destroyed that peace.

The Muslims are to blame just as much as the white Christians…they wanted all of Europe to convert. But in any case, I could care less what religion Europeans have, but the majority of Muslims were non white, so there presence wasn’t needed in Europe.

In moorish Spain; christianity, judaism, and islam, were all accepted even though the government was muslim. But then christians came in a conquered them [with much difficulty and fighting among themselves], eventually driving out or killing all muslims and jews. Islam throughout history has been much more peaceful and tollerant it seems. The current muslim world I guess is a monster, but a monster created by thousands of years of intollerance and hate from the Christian world.

It was the Muslims that invaded Spain after their violent spread across North Africa. The reason why the Jews were thrown out was because they held high positions in the Moorish government. They Moorish Muslims should have kept their asses away from Spain, Portugal and all of Europe. In fact, if it wasn’t for Charles Martel all of Europe would have been a non white Muslim world right now.

The Muslim world right now isn’t the monster. The reason why they are so hostile is because of the Jewish state over in what was Palestine. Some of them remember how Israel came into existence.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I am glad you answered that Patrick
Christianity was never intended to be aggressive but it has been occasionally - like in the Crusades and when they were converting pagans by force. But for the original Romans who became Christian (which was a thousand years before the Crusades) it was a passive religion. It is passive now in that the individuals who consider themselves Christian almost all believe in tolerance, charity and acceptance of other faiths. The Muslims still strongly intend for the world to become Muslim and they are growing rapidly in number in Europe while the Christians, and white people generally, are on the retreat.

Muslim stabs wife when daughter becomes Christian in Australia

"If children fail, the mother is at fault and will bear the brunt of the blame."

A devout Muslim woman was attacked and stabbed to death, allegedly by her husband, after their 17-year-old daughter announced she was embracing Christianity, according to police and news reports.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/muslim-kills-wife-because-daughters-christian-conversion

 

[Έρεβος]

The Muslims are to blame just as much as the white Christians&#8230;they wanted all of Europe to convert. But in any case, I could care less what religion Europeans have, but the majority of Muslims were non white, so there presence wasn&#8217;t needed in Europe.



It was the Muslims that invaded Spain after their violent spread across North Africa. The reason why the Jews were thrown out was because they held high positions in the Moorish government. They Moorish Muslims should have kept their asses away from Spain, Portugal and all of Europe. In fact, if it wasn&#8217;t for Charles Martel all of Europe would have been a non white Muslim world right now.

The Muslim world right now isn&#8217;t the monster. The reason why they are so hostile is because of the Jewish state over in what was Palestine. Some of them remember how Israel came into existence.

Ah, yea, I'd have to agree.

Off topic:
@Norsemaiden: Ahhh, I just noticed your signature, corrupt.org, amazing site. I only know one other person that agrees with such.

 

[MetalBooger]

Christianity in ancient times seemed alot more agressive than Islam,

absolutly wrong, read any byzantine history, christians were probably the least agressive when compared to the pagan barbarian and persian forces.

And to point out, I would argue that the crusades were products of the great egos of the time, and the desire to rightfully reclaim one of the most valued pieces of real estate in the world.

In my opinion all acts of war and agression are fueled not by religion but by power, and in most cases this power takes form in personal wealth. Even the suicide bombers of today who claim to be fighting for their religous convictions are probably doing it because they are being influenced by power hungry fools.

Joined into this discussion late but thought i would give it a go...

Yes i believe in God. I am catholic, and even though i see many religous divides in the world and negativity towards faith, i have come to a logical conclusion, through personal investigation, that there is a God.

 

[Blowtus]

Be curious to know how faith and a logical conclusion can be reconciled?

I don't believe in god/s for the same reason I don't believe in purple spotted flying hippos - nobody has shown that they exist.

 

[OldScratch]

absolutly wrong, read any byzantine history, christians were probably the least agressive when compared to the pagan barbarian and persian forces.

And to point out, I would argue that the crusades were products of the great egos of the time, and the desire to rightfully reclaim one of the most valued pieces of real estate in the world.

Setting aside the Theological portion for a moment...by what authority would Europeans "rightfully" claim a strip of desert in the Middle East? More inexplicably, you say "reclaim" as if to imply some prior possession.
The best thing Europeans could ever have done would be leave that slice of 'real-estate' and all its attendant Semetic mysticism the Hell alone! I wish we could forget we ever knew it was there.

 

[Seditious]

Be curious to know how faith and a logical conclusion can be reconciled?

I don't believe in god/s for the same reason I don't believe in purple spotted flying hippos - nobody has shown that they exist.

this is why they've typically had arguments like the argument from design. They try to infer God from the world as it is, and from that just 'have faith' that they're right (harder and harder as science explains away all the little things 'god did it' covered, so now instead of having God in the cracks they have to say 'God made evolution' and the likes, which although not mentioned by any of their history or prophecy is supposed to save them from religious suicide with Occam's Razor)

 

[Blowtus]

Yeah... "The only way the universe could have been created in this order is if it were built by something we have even less chance of describing the creation of" never really sat well with me

 

[MetalBooger]

More inexplicably, you say "reclaim" as if to imply some prior possession.

I believe, and my knowledge is limited, that such lands including Turkey and Israel belonged to the eastern roman empire, the only reason why they do not exist now is because they were forced out by the incredibly agressive islamic and persian armies.

We owe the existence of Europe to the longevity of Constantinople and other great capitals, for they, in my opinion held off the Persian armies long enough for europe to build up the appropriate defense.

If a roman dominant population still maintained its power of the Middle East, I am guessing that the region would be in a lot better state, more christian and therefore more peaceful.