Bands That Have Gotten Progressively Worse With Each Album

[Planetary Eulogy]

incoherent is not the same as dislikeable. ideologically, later death is clear as day.

The only thing "clear as day" was Chuck's lack of any ideal beyond self-promotion and conformity to cookie cutter 'rebellion.'

as for being similar to coroner and/or cynic, well, that's a whole other discussion; unless you can name more than a statistically irrelevant two bands, you have no point.

When you're directly ripping off other artists (as Death did), ONE band is statistically relevant. Rehashing the existing material of other bands isn't a mark of genius.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Why?

'Tis customary in the presence of a deity. I'm fairly informal though, I probably won't even smite you if you refuse to genuflect. Probably.

 

[ffanatic]

Wrong, I pointed out that later Death is an ideologically incoherent copy of Coroner and Cynic, and thus, shitty. I further pointed out that Chuck Schuldiner was a cunt for ditching his band in the middle of an overseas tour. Not a single one of those points has been addressed, much less refuted by the assorted fanboys who have so bravely issued forth to challenge me. Instead, you children have spent three pages worth of replies attacking me and demanding "respect" for the corpse of a man who did jack squat to earn it.

What it comes down to is that there are a handful of posters on this board (apparently you among them) who are so insecure that they can't stand to see a band they enjoy criticized. Somehow, the suggestion that Death might not be all that great is taken as a deeply personal assualt on your self-worth.

Meh, those aren't issues. Infantile whinning is nearer the point. As for criticism, you haven't offered any.

 

[Heliologue]

No child, but I've crushed you in debate under several names, both here and the Opeth forum. You've an awful high opinion of yourself for someone who's never seen a substantive point he couldn't duck on the way to delivering an imbecilic insult.

really? and when would that have been? and what about? and what moniker were you prancing about with at the time?

 

[Heliologue]

The only thing "clear as day" was Chuck's lack of any ideal beyond self-promotion and conformity to cookie cutter 'rebellion.'

When you're directly ripping off other artists (as Death did), ONE band is statistically relevant. Rehashing the existing material of other bands isn't a mark of genius.

as opposed to your brand of rebellion, which is much better.

"directly ripping off other artists" is called "plagiarism," boys and girls. had it happened, there would have been legal repercussions. on the other hand, having a similar style or sound to another band is called "coincidence," and irrelevent without a prevalence of that style.

thus endeth the lesson.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Meh, those aren't issues. Infantile whinning is nearer the point. As for criticism, you haven't offered any.

You are the Artful Dodger indeed. Pathetic in a way, but really quite skilled. I admire your elusiveness.

 

[ffanatic]

as opposed to your brand of rebellion, which is much better.

"directly ripping off other artists" is called "plagiarism," boys and girls. had it happened, there would have been legal repercussions. on the other hand, having a similar style or sound to another band is called "coincidence," and irrelevent without a prevalence of that style.

thus endeth the lesson.

Hark! For I have heard the word of saturnix. And it is good. Planetary Eulogy, do you have anything new or relevant to add to this? Seeing's how your whinning has been dismissed on several occasions.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

as opposed to your brand of rebellion, which is much better.

I'm afraid I can't muster much in the way of "rebellion." Passive resistance to certain aspects of modern socialization and herd thinking, yes. A minimal level of subversive speech, perhaps. Rebellion? No. And yes, it is far better than the prepackaged, consumer ready 'rebellion' (which merely reinforces prevailing attitudes) favored by Chuck Schuldiner in his declining years.

"directly ripping off other artists" is called "plagiarism," boys and girls. had it happened, there would have been legal repercussions.

Actually, ripping off a basic style is insufficient to merit charges of 'plagarism' or copyright infringement (and thus insufficient to produce 'legal repercussions'). It is sufficient to deem a band patently derivative.

on the other hand, having a similar style or sound to another band is called "coincidence," and irrelevent without a prevalence of that style.

It's hardly likely to be coincidental, given the chronology, as well the geographic proximity and member swapping (in the case of Cynic). There's a sudden, decisive shift in Death's style at precisely the moment when Coroner and Cynic were beginning to really make a splash, not to mention that it came at a moment when "technical" rhythm work had become a major trend in metal. From a historical perspective, Death were joining a bandwagon, not creating one. The current exalted perception of the band is due largely to a combination of name recognition, successful self-promotion and a favorable location.

 

[Heliologue]

opting not to respond to my prior query?

 

[ffanatic]

opting not to respond to my prior query?

Of course. He can't answer it. Notice how my querry went unrecognized as well.

 

[Heliologue]

I'm afraid I can't muster much in the way of "rebellion." Passive resistance to certain aspects of modern socialization and herd thinking, yes. A minimal level of subversive speech, perhaps. Rebellion? No. And yes, it is far better than the prepackaged, consumer ready 'rebellion' (which merely reinforces prevailing attitudes) favored by Chuck Schuldiner in his declining years.

what would you have him do? the sloughing off of societal norms and quintessential oppressions does not require many schools of thought; the dynamics involved are simple enough, would but one supply the requisite impetus. the prepackaged "rebellion" you speak of is not prepackaged, it's merely didactic. while chuck's resonating of these theories is arguably just as passive as your own, it hardly makes him the subject of ridicule.

Actually, ripping off a basic style is insufficient to merit charges of 'plagarism' or copyright infringement (and thus insufficient to produce 'legal repercussions'). It is sufficient to deem a band patently derivative.

the charge of which is more heinous if you can name more than two bands. that hardly constitutes a supersaturated stylistic niche.

It's hardly likely to be coincidental, given the chronology, as well the geographic proximity and member swapping (in the case of Cynic). There's a sudden, decisive shift in Death's style at precisely the moment when Coroner and Cynic were beginning to really make a splash, not to mention that it came at a moment when "technical" rhythm work had become a major trend in metal. From a historical perspective, Death were joining a bandwagon, not creating one. The current exalted perception of the band is due largely to a combination of name recognition, successful self-promotion and a favorable location.

call me crazy (you will), but i hear very little cynic in latter-day death, despite member-swapping. while the comparison to coroner is closer to validity, i would argue that the former did it better, imitation or not. i'm arguing for Death As Innovator, but i'm lauding the end result. the evidence you've supplied to the contrary is impotent as best.

 

[Heliologue]

Of course. He can't answer it. Notice how my querry went unrecognized as well.

i asked him what other monikers he's used. i certainly hope he can answer it.

 

[Timmeth]

So much jargon it's ridiculous...

 

[ffanatic]

i asked him what other monikers he's used. i certainly hope he can answer it.

Let's hope he can.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

call me crazy (you will), but i hear very little cynic in latter-day death, despite member-swapping. while the comparison to coroner is closer to validity, i would argue that the former did it better, imitation or not.

I take it you're familiar with Cynic only from Focus? That work is rather different from the material which precedes it. I'd recommend the Reflections of a Dying World demo (1989) as a reference here. But really, the first three Cynic demos were all rather obviously used as a template for the later Death material. Even the first Atheist disc ('89) bears a marked resemblence to Human.

From my vantage point, Death suffers in comparison to all these influences due both to ideological incoherence and a tendency to try to apply what is basically a progressive style to recursive rock based structures. While Death's work is more easily accessed and digested than the bands they imitated, it's also far more limited in scope.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

i asked him what other monikers he's used. i certainly hope he can answer it.

Eh, my past handles are fairly well known, most of the forum's participants instantly recognize each new incarnation for what it is. I suppose your isolation on the Opeth forum might account for a certain level of ignorance on that score.

Thunderbolt of Ba'al
Cryonaut X
Stupor Mundi
Dying Sun
Mornelithe Falconsbane (I think I used that on this forum, but it's been a couple of years)

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Incidentally, for those interested in the Cynic demos, they can be downloaded here.

 

[Heliologue]

Eh, my past handles are fairly well known, most of the forum's participants instantly recognize each new incarnation for what it is. I suppose your isolation on the Opeth forum might account for a certain level of ignorance on that score.

Thunderbolt of Ba'al
Cryonaut X
Stupor Mundi
Dying Sun
Mornelithe Falconsbane (I think I used that on this forum, but it's been a couple of years)

and except for perhaps a passing comment to you as cryonaut x, we've never argued before. i submit that you are making up history.

 

[Heliologue]

I take it you're familiar with Cynic only from Focus? That work is rather different from the material which precedes it. I'd recommend the Reflections of a Dying World demo (1989) as a reference here. But really, the first three Cynic demos were all rather obviously used as a template for the later Death material. Even the first Atheist disc ('89) bears a marked resemblence to Human.

From my vantage point, Death suffers in comparison to all these influences due both to ideological incoherence and a tendency to try to apply what is basically a progressive style to recursive rock based structures. While Death's work is more easily accessed and digested than the bands they imitated, it's also far more limited in scope.

no, i've listened to their demos, too, though my favour falls to the former. as i said, while death may indeed bear a secondhand resemblance to the works of atheist, i certainly wouldn't label them as second rate. it seems to me that your doing so is the result of bias and not analysis.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

and except for perhaps a passing comment to you as cryonaut x, we've never argued before. i submit that you are making up history.

No, we went to war over Opeth while I was using the Thunderbolt of Ba'al handle. I remember only because you still had that goddamn flower as your personal pic. That was when I still kept the dancing Hitler .gif in my sigfile (perhaps a memory refresher?).