BFD x DFHS

Does DFHS automatically choose left and right hits or to you have to tell when it's going to use which?

Also do you know if EZDrummer can do left and right hits?
 
Sup doods im looking into soft samplers mainly for drumming and BFD / DFH / EZdrummer look awesome but i use protools not some vst noob software :p are the multiouts working 100% and if they do how many can you get becasue i want each drum instument on its own audio track in protools. this isnt the 1930's where u got a 1track mixer desk or something... ps: can u import your own wav samples? thats what im looking for and for a program that wont rape my samples with lfos and amplitude or pitch effects by default :D im using protools for the effects i just need the virtual drumer to hit the virtual drums when i tell him/her to. YOUR FIRED

Peace
D
D
 
ps i just went to the drumagog site... can drumagog be trigered from a midi ?!?

midi triggering wav samplers with multiouts to protools 7.1:

battery 8outs: fails / but would be awesome if it worked and had more than 8 measily outputs
kontakt 8outs: buggy and fails / but would be awesome if it worked and had more than 8 measily outputs
reason 65outs!!!: WORKS! / the only one that works 100% with low cpu also but i dont like the nnxt features thumbs down

D
D
 
Well, I havent used dfhs with any sort of trigger....I program by hand so.....you have to select right or left hand
 
T666 said:
Sup doods im looking into soft samplers mainly for drumming and BFD / DFH / EZdrummer look awesome but i use protools not some vst noob software :p are the multiouts working 100% and if they do how many can you get becasue i want each drum instument on its own audio track in protools. this isnt the 1930's where u got a 1track mixer desk or something... ps: can u import your own wav samples? thats what im looking for and for a program that wont rape my samples with lfos and amplitude or pitch effects by default :D im using protools for the effects i just need the virtual drumer to hit the virtual drums when i tell him/her to. YOUR FIRED

Peace
D
D
Click to expand...
I used D.F.H.S. in Pro Tools for years thru Re-Wire. Not once did I have a single problem with it. I switched to Logic for DVD/ Surround and EWQL products purposes.:kickass:
 
for what its worth, the metal project studio guys are using dfh here and they're getting good results. But bfd is far and away way more powerful and has alot more options tonally because of the immense amount of samples made for it and the parameters allow for some serious tweaking. There is tons of songs all over the radio using bfd, and while they arent particularly my favorite drum sounds i certainly didnt notice that they were bfd until i was told that. and it still doest sound that fake to me, it just sounds like a kit with good samples on it. Kelly clarkson and the new flyleaf records were all done with bfd. Its all in the user, and the guys out there crafting hits like it enough to tell the drummers to beat it. that being said...i think the immediate samples in dfh are a more desirable for the rock and metal stuff...especially that snare and the toms, they sound great. I also think its a bit easier to get used to running, just check em both out and see what you think. i would go with bfd simply for the power and possibilities.
 
Uh...DFHS has more features. That's already been covered. Secondly, BFD's foundation package costs $329 from the developer's site, only comes with 2 dvd's/9gb worth of samples...which you need to spend more money to expand...not to mention the fact that they didn't sample left and right hand/foot hits. Or, you can buy DFHS for $299 (developer's site, even less else where) and get 9 dvd's/35gb of samples, more features, left and right hand hits as well as l/r foot hits on the kick, more kicks, more snares, more cymbals, more rides, more toms...list goes on and on....Best part? You only spend that $250-299 one time. You don't ever have to spend another dime on it. Ever.

BFD is not more powerful and does not have "alot more options tonally because of the immense amount of samples made for it". It comes with 9gb of fucking samples. DFHS = 30gb for Drummer. To get that you have to spend even more cash on the expansions to get close to the amount of samples that DFHS has, on top of the price you already paid for the first thing (which cost more than DFHS already) and still doesn't have l/r hand/foot hits.

Flyleaf and Kelly Clarkson are for homos. Meshuggah used DFHS for Catch33. Now that sounded pretty fucking good to me.

Beating a dead horse, yet again, I'll just go ahead and put the nail in the coffin.

DFHS = 193 peices
BFD = 65 peices
DFHS = $299 MSRP
BFD = $329 MSRP
BFD Expansions = $199-249

Eat it.

~006
Resident DFHS Nazi
 
Original BFD has 13 snares and 8 kick drums....dfhs has what....11 snares...and 5 kicks......

BFD is sampled at least 46 velocity layers....XFL 90...DLX 127.....how many layers does dfhs have?

I agree it is shit that you have to purchase the original BFD to use the expansion packs..oh well
 
006 said:
Uh...DFHS has more features. That's already been covered. Secondly, BFD's foundation package costs $329 from the developer's site, only comes with 2 dvd's/9gb worth of samples...which you need to spend more money to expand...not to mention the fact that they didn't sample left and right hand/foot hits. Or, you can buy DFHS for $299 (developer's site, even less else where) and get 9 dvd's/35gb of samples, more features, left and right hand hits as well as l/r foot hits on the kick, more kicks, more snares, more cymbals, more rides, more toms...list goes on and on....Best part? You only spend that $250-299 one time. You don't ever have to spend another dime on it. Ever.

BFD is not more powerful and does not have "alot more options tonally because of the immense amount of samples made for it". It comes with 9gb of fucking samples. DFHS = 30gb for Drummer. To get that you have to spend even more cash on the expansions to get close to the amount of samples that DFHS has, on top of the price you already paid for the first thing (which cost more than DFHS already) and still doesn't have l/r hand/foot hits.

Flyleaf and Kelly Clarkson are for homos. Meshuggah used DFHS for Catch33. Now that sounded pretty fucking good to me.

Beating a dead horse, yet again, I'll just go ahead and put the nail in the coffin.

DFHS = 193 peices
BFD = 65 peices
DFHS = $299 MSRP
BFD = $329 MSRP
BFD Expansions = $199-249

Eat it.

~006
Resident DFHS Nazi
Click to expand...


bro...back up here, i'm only telling what i like...i dont think i was tryin to sway anyone either way. no need to come off so harsh. First of all i dont care what you think of either of those acts, i was simply trying to give an example of what a good programmer can do with BFD. honestly im sure those "homos" producing chart topping records had access to anything they needed and they chose bfd. i really dig the samples on both and honestly think the extra cash on bfd is definetly worth it as the expansion packs for bfd are FAR more diverse than the few kits that dfhs offers regardless of how many gigs it comes with. and seriously, any programmer worth a shit can make slammin tracks without the left and right hand samples and all the bells and whistles that 99% of the people who buy dfhs will never use in the first place. i'm sorry i so rudely stepped on your ruthless agenda for DFHS but i was merely stating points from both sides of the fence about the programs. no need to come out of the gates with a flame war because my opinion doesnt match up with yours. have some class man, it'll get you a bit farther in the sales business.
 
Ken, im looking into dfhs right now
If dfhs rewires to protools
That would be awesome
But how many multiouts actualy work?
And can you import your own wav files in dfhs?
And finaly whats the difference between dfhs and ezdrummer?
I dont understand how 2 drumming products from the same company diverge
Without a cross comparison
How do they expect you to choose which one to buy?
Other than the ezdrummer page and interface looks 10times beter...
Yet its 100$ cheaper...
I dont care about price i want the better product
Im also looking into BFD

But are all these sample libraries 24bit audio?
I saw something about 16bit samples and thats 1940's quality
Im not going to use that

Any advice aprreciated

Thanks
David D

T
6
6
6
 
T666 said:
Ken, im looking into dfhs right now
If dfhs rewires to protools
That would be awesome
But how many multiouts actualy work?
And can you import your own wav files in dfhs?
And finaly whats the difference between dfhs and ezdrummer?
I dont understand how 2 drumming products from the same company diverge
Without a cross comparison
How do they expect you to choose which one to buy?
Other than the ezdrummer page and interface looks 10times beter...
Yet its 100$ cheaper...
I dont care about price i want the better product
Im also looking into BFD

But are all these sample libraries 24bit audio?
I saw something about 16bit samples and thats 1940's quality
Im not going to use that

Any advice aprreciated

Thanks
David D

T
6
6
6
Click to expand...
O.K. -I will say what I can say, because....YES.. I'm in Da' ToonTrack Family (Beta Tester)
If dfhs rewires to protools
It's not if it does. It does! I know I did it for years. With Pro Tools you have to set up (if I remember correctly) Aux. tracks for each piece coming in.

And can you import your own wav files in dfhs?
I've never done it, but I know guys who replace the kicks with Andy's:kickass:

Difference between D.F.H.S. and EZ Drummer?
D.F.H.S. has over 85,000 samples in it 16 & 24 bit. 35 gigs worth. Before, your average computer couldn't handle D.F.H.S. Kind of like those E.W.Q.L. Orchestras needed mucho power too! But now with tpc/16bit a FULL kit with 12-14 cymbals loaded will NOT kill your machine:headbang:
EZ Drummer has 7,000 samples, All 16bit at 44.1kHk. Now, the fun thing is EZ Drummer has around 8,000 drum patterns that just KILL!!!!! EZ has just one kit, not a Big one and there's a FREE Cocktail drumkit expansion pack. There's a tutorial somewhere at the site---> www.EZdrummer.com
I've never seen it. It may expalin things better.

How do they expect you to choose which one to buy?
Well......... If you do not have about 40 gigs of open hard drive space, D.F.H.S. is not gonna work. I'm fortunate enough to have them all. Never really go into D.F.H. I much, maybe for kicks sometimes, or doing Blast beats over a AC/DC beat (Ala Derek Roddy-"Victorious Reign" tune-Hate Eternal):headbang:
With D.F.H.S. and C&V they weigh in at over 70 gigs of KILLER drum samples. And some ask what do I prefer best? I like C&V's cymbals and sound. But, I also like ALL the choices D.F.H.S. offers!

D.F.H.S. IS 24bit. It lets you program in 16bit with tpc 'on', so your machine can handle it. Once you've programmed your tune and you like it.... bounce it in the D.F.H.S. Sampler and your finished tracks will be 24bit. Another thing many newbies do is turn all the mic leakage when programming and it stalls their computer and they start bitchin'. If they'd read the manual, they'd know that .....You can set ALL your mic bleeding in the 'main window' of the sampler. Yes, it takes awhile, but how good do you want your stuff to sound? Then you can turn off ALL the microphone leakage in the construction window and turn 'OFF' -cache-. When you are programming, yes it'll sound dry. But once you bounce it, all the mic bleedings you've set wil be in the final bounced 24 bit .wav files!!

Hope that helps some!!!!


As for the BFD vs. D.F.H.S. wars........ All I gotta say is, bfd :cry: .... Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...kelly clarkson...hahahahahahahaaaa... THIS IS A FUCKING METAL FORUM! Who gives a fuck about kelly clarkson's sound!!!
D.F.H.S. is what ALL others are compared to! PERIOD!

GORILLA
 
Axe, you were stating your opinions as facts. I'm not flaming anyone. BFD is literally a joke when you come down to the most realistic part of drumming: left and right hand/foot hits. As far as I'm concerned, BFD will never be a contender until it offers that. DFHS offers it, and I've heard sooooooooooo many clips done by users with DFHS that sounded incredible. What have I heard from BFD? Just their user demos on the site, and....wow Kelly Clarkson and Flyleaf representin' the BFDizzle. I'm fucking impressed.

Also, DFHS is not limited to any particular style of music...if you know what you are doing you can make any kit you want for any style of music. Rock, punk, pop, metal (death/grind/black/crust/etc.), country, jazz, latin, acoustic, acoustic rock....any style you can play, you can eq the drums in DFHS to sound right for the part. So don't give me that bullshit about how it's more suited to metal. Which in turn, also shoves BFD into the ground yet again, because you have to buy the expansion packs for BFD to get all of the versatility thet DFHS offers right out of the box.

Yawn, this is getting old. DFHS has been proven time and time again that it offers a hell of a lot more at a substantially lower cost to the user. If that doesn't settle it all, just listen to sound clips of the two programs...DFHS owns.

~006
 
Lol. Well I just won't rest when there is someone out there trying to say BFD is better. Especially when (here comes my bachelor's in english) "better" is nothing more than an opinion, not fact. But, going by today's standard of the use "better", we are referring to basically a greater value. Like I said previously, in today's world people want to spend less and get more. It's all about value these days. How much more can I get for the same price or less? I mean, buying a car since the introduction of dealerships has meant going to the dealer, seeing the price the have posted, and haggling with them to knock it down as far as you can before saying "ok, I'll take it". You can walk into a guitar store with cash in hand pretty close to the amount asked by the retailer, tell them you only have X amount cash to spend, it costs Y, and the difference is Z. If the difference (Z) is within a reasonable amount, more than likely, they'll sell it to you. Even if you had the full amount available, you wanted to try and spend less on it.

With this in mind, you have to weigh the features of DFHS against the features of BFD. The main one that sticks out like a sore thumb is the fact that BFD is simply not nearly as elaborate as DFHS. The main culprit for this? The fact that it does not have left and right hand/foot hits sampled for the kits. That one single factor alone already puts BFD below the standard bar that DFHS has set. With BFD, to get the versatility that DFHS offers you must spend more money on the expansions. Like in a previous thread, somebody (a BFD user btw) stated that you have to spend about $600+ just to get all the goodies for BFD to come close to DFHS's offerings. And even with that, you still don't have l/r-h/f hits. Why spend $600+ on something when you can spend (lowest price seen so far) $235 on something that offers everything right out of the box? As far as "better" is concerned and it's use for this discussion, DFHS is better. Again, this is based on the usage meaning features and value.

And just to clarify, DFHS comes with 6 kicks and 17 snares, and 60+ cymbals to choose from. Thanks. :)

~006
 
kewl :p
protools has instrument tracks now, where you can code the midi and insert the rtas/vst-wrap/rewire plug in the same track :)

but now i have a question i posted on the protools forum maybe you doods can b help with...

regarding audio v midi... for realtime live performances...


Is midi timing and acuracy a problem for recording and playback?
Im talking playback WITH the realtime effect plugins ON?
Such as a live performace... whats the situation?

I want to play live with a tama kit/ddrum triggers to a ddrum module triggering midi into protools with a softsampler (dfhs or bfd i havnt decided yet) and route each drum audio sample to its own track in protools with real time effects bussed down with live guitar and vocals to get a mastered quality sound for the whole band in real time LIVE direct to the amp or via the inhouse mixing desk...

But in a average blast beat section our drummer hits about 10 bassdrums per second, 5 snares and 5 hihats...

What is going to happen?
He will hit 10th bassdrum before protools has even played the first one???

I have no experience with the reality of this technology
Its just been a concept to me for along time

In looking into different softsamplers i came accross drumogog
Which works on sound replacement instead of midi replacement

Is audio faster and more precise for triggering samples than midi?

I can run audio cables from the ddrum module to the analog inputs on protools and use an instance of drumagog on each track to replace the ddrum audio with harddrive samples instead...

Similary for studio work i could drop in a sine wave audio region (virtual midi note) to trigger the drumogog

The point being is this method faster and more acurate then using the midi notes from a midi track or from an external ddrum module with a softsampler like bdd, dfhs, kontakt, battery inserted etc etc...

I dont understand why midi is slower or not as precise as waiting for an audio signal? or if this is even true...
The audio still has to be converted to digital? maybe thats alot faster than determining what midi note was just hit?

Running 1 midi cable from the stage to the protools interface would be beter than running 16 audio cables (although i dont know the limitations on midi cable lengths)

I also wanted to research wireless MIDI from the stage and almost have a completely wireless live drum system

If midi is no good, well i could also send the audio from the ddrum wirelessly to protools also, but 1 midi cable is cheaper than 16 wireless audio units...
and i dont know wot sort of lag is introduced with wireless audio...


Has anyone got some experience with this type of setup and is it playable???

I want speed and acuracy as well as good quality samples with control

Peace
D
D
 
Ok, you need to refer to ToonTrack's website to watch the videos of the drummer using an e-kit plugged into DFHS. He is playing in real-time, with processing on the kit peices, and zero latency. Not to mention that they have other tracks going at the same time as well (vocals, two keyboards, a percussion pad) and still, top-notch performance.

At the studio, we use Cubase for doing this. And I've never tried it in ProTools, but I have heard of users doing it perfectly fine. In Cubase we just set up the MIDI input from our module and route it to DFHS, and then you have all the outputs from DFHS, with plug-ins on them for eq/comp/etc., set up the tracks for the mic'ed overheads (yes, we mic their own overheads, closely, one mic on each cymbal), track for the hi-hats (theirs), make tracks for scratch guitars, and just hit record. Zero latency on the drums. But one key thing to set-up (unless the band is just completely too rediculous to do this with) is a click-track. Record the drums to it, then once they are finished, go in and make sure the hits are perfect. If they are off just a tiny bit, no biggie, but if it's noticeable, obviously you'll want to move it back some. It's really easy and there is 0-5ms latency, and 5ms is not anything you can hear at all. I do this routine nearly every time a metal band comes in, because usually the bands around here have a crappy drum set, but can play really well, so I give them a really nice kit to compliment their playing.

We were looking into getting a really fucking nice electronic kit for clients to play on, but after talking to a few drummers about what they would rather have : an electronic kit, or their kit with triggers, they all said they'd rather have their kit to play on with triggers on it. Which is understandable. It's just with an e-kit it's easier on us, but oh well.

~006
 
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