Black metal or Death metal....

[MasterOLightning]

Is the painter who uses the most colors, biggest canvas, and best brushstrokes the best? No. Is the author who has the largest vocabulary and writes the longest books the best? No. In the same way, a band that has a ton of technicality isn't necessarily the best. Nor is a band that doesn't display musicianship and technicality bad.

Some of the best artists ever have been minimalists. Take Ernest Hemingway for example. Some would say he writes like a 12 year old. Those people obviously don't get what Hemingway is doing. This is analoguous to Darkthrone, whose intent is to be playing exactly what they are.

Part of what makes Darkthrone great is the atmosphere they create. This is their primary goal, not to play their instruments in a complex manner. Their use of minimalism is making an artistic statement. The use of intentionally raw production and simple riffs is a stark contrast to the metal at the time, and especially metal today, which places a premium on who can be the fastest, most brutal, most technical. Darkthrone is so different. Listen to songs like Natassja in Eternal Sleep, or En Vind Av Sorg. People shit on Darkthrone's production, but can you not hear everything perfectly clearly?

People who say that Darkthrone suck are wrong. You can not like them if their music is not your thing, but to diminish any of their accomplishments is just wrong.

And Darkthrone is the only one of the original black metal bands to not sell out.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Your reasoning is illogical. Darkthrone put out albums because they feel like doing it. If they were sellouts they would be touring and playing festivals. They haven't been on tour, and that's where the money is. Emperor came back to do festivals? Probably because the money was right. Mayhem use their name and their image for success, not their music. I don't know about Satyricon. I don't listen to them and I don't consider them one of the important early bands.

Darkthrone hasn't sold out. They don't release shitty best-ofs, or live albums or DVDs every other year. When they did the best-of and live album, it was probably because Satyr wanted them to. They haven't recorded videos. They don't give a shit about how many records they sell.

 

[G-Master]

Your reasoning is illogical. Darkthrone put out albums because they feel like doing it. If they were sellouts they would be touring and playing festivals.

Strange logic, friend.

 

[MasterOLightning]

^Explain, please.

There's a lot of money in touring and festivals, and Darkthrone is well known enough that they surely could command money for doing these things, but they choose not to.

 

[Julian Zembrowski]

Mmm I'm agreeing with masteroflightening.
I know an extremely excellent guitarist who has been playing for 40+ years and has been in a fathomless amount of bands.

He can easily go Yngwie fast but he never does, he perfers to stick to his own feel for music.

I highly doubt Nocturno Culto is some idiot who only knows powerchords. He's been playing for many years, I'm sure he has some prowess on his instrument of choice, but why fool yourself by playing the fastest you can when you can do what your supposed to and make the music that you enjoy.

 

[Brackofthemountain]

There are aspects of Death metal that I enjoy while at the same time Black Metal is also somewhere on my list...

Considering the thought "What would have happened had In Flames kept their old singer and drummer?" They probably would have been a black metal band(and quite possibly more decent than they are now... A lot of black metal has the same repetitive church organs if they really want to sound "ANTICHRIST", and that gets boring... whereas if somebody in Death Metal were to scream and growl to a blast beat, that goes along the same lines as mentioned before.

It's pretty much equaled out.

 

[vampyrouss]

From Wikipedia:

"Selling out has frequently become used to describe anyone who changes artistic direction, as many fans assume that this must be done in an attempt to attain wider commercial appeal. This may fail to account for natural artistic development, which may lead an artist in directions that their original fans disliked. Also, it can result in many artists being afraid to show any artistical progression out of fear of alienating existing fans, which many argue is a prime example of going against one's beliefs or values in the pursuit of monetary gain."

 

[MasterOLightning]

Playing festivals doesn't make you a sellout, but not playing them (when you have the option to) makes you not a sellout.

 

[Procella]

From Wikipedia:

"Also, it can result in many artists being afraid to show any artistical progression out of fear of alienating existing fans, which many argue is a prime example of going against one's beliefs or values in the pursuit of monetary gain."

Yes. I think that this is also kind of selling out.

 

[Birkenau]

... if anything, immigrants mostly enrich societies in every way! it has always been like this, and a society that closed themselves from the world became stagnant.

That must be one of the most stupidest things I've ever read.

 

[Ikil]

Sorry Black Session, but I agree with Birkenau there. Thats bullshit basically. We have let so many immigrants into this country. Some of them have adapted to our culture and are greatful for what this country has done for them. But then there are those immigrants that don't deserve shit!

I am sick of immigrants coming here and not being greatful for anything this country has done for them. They whinge about everything! They come here expecting the government to give them a million dollars and a beautiful home, but when they don't get that, they carry on. What the fuck do you expect to get when you come here?

They whinge about the government, the whinge about the people here, they whinge about our life style, culture, anything to do with this country and then have balls to say that their country is better than ours. If your country is better than mine, then why the fuck did you want to come here in the first place? Its not my country going through a civil war mate! Its not my country being taken over by a 'dictator'!

If you don't like living in this country and can't appreciate what we have done for you people, then piss off back to your own country.

I know its not everyone, but geez!

Ikil

 

[Julian Zembrowski]

..Basically what I said.
It's hard to generalize but in truth they don't contribute much. They just form their own packs amongst a country and cause riots (See France).

 

[hibernal_dream]

I am sick of immigrants coming here and not being greatful for anything this country has done for them. They whinge about everything! They come here expecting the government to give them a million dollars and a beautiful home, but when they don't get that, they carry on. What the fuck do you expect to get when you come here?

Bit of an exaggeration perhaps? I'm sure they are grateful since they continue to live here when they can return any time they want to. It's just human nature that the negative aspects of life tend to be emphasised more than the positive aspects. When people are satisfied they have no need to complain. But when they do complain it gets heard. A newspaper will usually consist of 90% people complaining about something, be it a murder, taxes, the traffic or the weather.

They whinge about the government, the whinge about the people here, they whinge about our life style, culture, anything to do with this country and then have balls to say that their country is better than ours. If your country is better than mine, then why the fuck did you want to come here in the first place? Its not my country going through a civil war mate! Its not my country being taken over by a 'dictator'!

If you don't like living in this country and can't appreciate what we have done for you people, then piss off back to your own country.

I disagree. "They" have just as much right to complain as you by virtue of their tax-paying citizenship. Unfortunately for you the way of life you cherish, government and lifestyle has evolved via a system of representative government whereby people do have a voice and the power to change things. Whinging is just one way of many ways that people can make these changes possible. And if enough immigrants arrive here to change whatever they are unhappy about i'm happy to say you will have to live with it.

P.S I find it quite funny you criticise Varg's Nazism then put forward these national socialistic views.

 

[vampyrouss]

Black Metal... or Death Metal... anyone?!

 

[Julian Zembrowski]

Black Metal... or Death Metal... anyone?!

Bah! Damn Varg Vikernes, now we can't even speak of the words Black Metal without a heated political debate.

 

[petrucci_dude]

They continue to live here because they can't get back to their home either because they spent all their money coming here or they got here by other means (any Australian would know what I am talking about)

How the fuck am I unfortunate? I am fortunate to be in a country that isn't going through a civil war, I am forunate to be in a country that hasn't got a dictator for a leader. And who do you think pays for these people who illegally come here on their boats etc? The tax-payer!

As I stated. There are SOME races that have come to this country and have been greatful for what this country has given them. Yet, there are those races where a lot of them whinge about this country, are not greatful one bit. I don't think its an exaggeration at all. I've grown up with enough people to see this. Half of my family migrated here in the 1950's and they are greatful for this country and call themselves Australian. I know plenty of other people who's family migrated here as well and they to are greatful for this country and they to call themselves Australian.

Then we come to these people who migrate here, whinge about what they are given, do crimes, try to rort the system, etc. They should not stay here then. As I said, its not everyone, but there are a lot of them. If they are not greatful for this country gives them, then go back home and give it to someone who is gonna appreciate it. Same goes for those that are born here but with heritage going back overseas. I've dealt with enough people who reckon this country sucks and that they are not Australian and that they wanna go live where their parents were born etc. Well, whats stopping you? Go , get out! Go live where your parents were born and get an understanding why they brought you over here. See if you survive.

People came here so they could give their family and their children a better living. To keep them safe from what they went through back home. If you don't like it here, go! Learn why your parents came here!

Ikil

Agreed. Any Australian with knowledge on this topic (immigrants in Australia) will agree too. They are very unworthy of the beautiful lands we possess, and majority of the time they start fights, riots, and rort the system as Ikil mentioned.

 

[hibernal_dream]

They continue to live here because they can't get back to their home either because they spent all their money coming here or they got here by other means (any Australian would know what I am talking about)

How the fuck am I unfortunate? I am fortunate to be in a country that isn't going through a civil war, I am forunate to be in a country that hasn't got a dictator for a leader. And who do you think pays for these people who illegally come here on their boats etc? The tax-payer!

As I stated. There are SOME races that have come to this country and have been greatful for what this country has given them. Yet, there are those races where a lot of them whinge about this country, are not greatful one bit. I don't think its an exaggeration at all. I've grown up with enough people to see this. Half of my family migrated here in the 1950's and they are greatful for this country and call themselves Australian. I know plenty of other people who's family migrated here as well and they to are greatful for this country and they to call themselves Australian.

Then we come to these people who migrate here, whinge about what they are given, do crimes, try to rort the system, etc. They should not stay here then. As I said, its not everyone, but there are a lot of them. If they are not greatful for this country gives them, then go back home and give it to someone who is gonna appreciate it. Same goes for those that are born here but with heritage going back overseas. I've dealt with enough people who reckon this country sucks and that they are not Australian and that they wanna go live where their parents were born etc. Well, whats stopping you? Go , get out! Go live where your parents were born and get an understanding why they brought you over here. See if you survive.

People came here so they could give their family and their children a better living. To keep them safe from what they went through back home. If you don't like it here, go! Learn why your parents came here!

Ikil

You didn't really address my post, but anyway.
Why do you single out immigrants as unworthy of raising issues they want to change? Is there any reason for this or is it just jealousy that they are costing you taxes and taking away your jobs? Why is it that you view yourself as more Australian then a recent immigrant who holds a citizenship, job and pays taxes? Just explain these questions to me and I will gladly accept your views.

Did you think that maybe the reason they came here in the first place - so they could have a voice as opposed to their dictatorship in their previous country. Again, I really wish you would stop saying "go back home" - it portrays the country as a bunch of racist rednecks. As I've said, it is entirely their choice if they want to stay or go, and if they choose to stay and change how the country is run, good for them. Its the backbone of our country, and adopting your passive philosophy of "take it or leave it" is an alien concept to anyone who regards themselves as an Australian citizen. If you are not happy that immigrants have an equal opportunity to complain as you do, and that they frequently exercise this right, I would argue that it is you that should return to whereever you're ancestors came from in the 1950's.

 

[Prognostic]

They continue to live here because they can't get back to their home either because they spent all their money coming here or they got here by other means (any Australian would know what I am talking about)

How the fuck am I unfortunate? I am fortunate to be in a country that isn't going through a civil war, I am forunate to be in a country that hasn't got a dictator for a leader. And who do you think pays for these people who illegally come here on their boats etc? The tax-payer!

As I stated. There are SOME races that have come to this country and have been greatful for what this country has given them. Yet, there are those races where a lot of them whinge about this country, are not greatful one bit. I don't think its an exaggeration at all. I've grown up with enough people to see this. Half of my family migrated here in the 1950's and they are greatful for this country and call themselves Australian. I know plenty of other people who's family migrated here as well and they to are greatful for this country and they to call themselves Australian.

Then we come to these people who migrate here, whinge about what they are given, do crimes, try to rort the system, etc. They should not stay here then. As I said, its not everyone, but there are a lot of them. If they are not greatful for this country gives them, then go back home and give it to someone who is gonna appreciate it. Same goes for those that are born here but with heritage going back overseas. I've dealt with enough people who reckon this country sucks and that they are not Australian and that they wanna go live where their parents were born etc. Well, whats stopping you? Go , get out! Go live where your parents were born and get an understanding why they brought you over here. See if you survive.

People came here so they could give their family and their children a better living. To keep them safe from what they went through back home. If you don't like it here, go! Learn why your parents came here!

Ikil

I know for a fact I can survive by myself in south korea. In fact I'm living here right now and have been for two years now. My parents didn't move to australia because of some dictator or worse condition of living. imo, south korea and australia are very similar

 

[Ikil]

You didn't really address my post, but anyway.
Why do you single out immigrants as unworthy of raising issues they want to change? Is there any reason for this or is it just jealousy that they are costing you taxes and taking away your jobs? Why is it that you view yourself as more Australian then a recent immigrant who holds a citizenship, job and pays taxes? Just explain these questions to me and I will gladly accept your views.

Did you think that maybe the reason they came here in the first place - so they could have a voice as opposed to their dictatorship in their previous country. Again, I really wish you would stop saying "go back home" - it portrays the country as a bunch of racist rednecks. As I've said, it is entirely their choice if they want to stay or go, and if they choose to stay and change how the country is run, good for them. Its the backbone of our country, and adopting your passive philosophy of "take it or leave it" is an alien concept to anyone who regards themselves as an Australian citizen. If you are not happy that immigrants have an equal opportunity to complain as you do, and that they frequently exercise this right, I would argue that it is you that should return to whereever you're ancestors came from in the 1950's.

I did address your post mate! You obviously didn't read it, you just don't care what others may think.

I am not seeing myself as more Australian than immigrants. Did you read what I said? I wonder again. My argument is, I don't think people should come here and bad mouth the country. Thats what I don't like. Doesn't it bother you when someone comes up to you and says 'Australia does nothing for me? I hate Australia!'? We let them come and stay here, what more do they want? If immigrants come here, have jobs, own businesses, etc, thats great! It shows that they are accepting of Australia and appreciate this land. I am all for that.

Why would I want to leave Australia? Do I bag this country out? NO, this is the best country in the world. Why would I want to leave. I have no problems here. That was a pretty risky comment on your behalf...

People who came here after WWII, they got it tough, had to work tough jobs to support their family back home and bring them to Australia. Sure, it wasn't easy, but they got through it and they made it. The problem with some people coming here now is that they come here expecting great things straight away. Well, it doesn't happen like that, it takes time and they have to accept that.

I have no problem with people moving to this country. No problem at all. If they appreciate this country and are greatful for being here, I pat them on the back 100%. Its when you have those that start complaining that they don't get enough and start telling me how bad this country is, that I get upset.

Obviously I am not the only one who feels this way. We are seeing laws being introduced in some countries now where if people come to the country and then start bad mouthing the country, they get sent back home. I think thats a fair call. There are 2 countries I know of that are introducing these laws and we could be another very soon.

I am not trying to paint all immigrants as bad ok, I am just saying that some of them shouldn't bag this country out. It sounds like you are trying to paint them all as saints, I am sure you are not, but thats how it seems. Please understand that they are not all wonderful as I understand that they are not all bad, but some of them should be sent back home.

Ikil

 

[Ikil]

I know for a fact I can survive by myself in south korea. In fact I'm living here right now and have been for two years now. My parents didn't move to australia because of some dictator or worse condition of living. imo, south korea and australia are very similar

Well thats great to hear. I support you man! Great. And I am not saying everyone moved here cause their country was war stricken or whatever, but in some countries, a lot of their people moved here because their country was going through turmoil, etc.

If your parents moved here and had no problems etc. Great, I hope your parents are enjoying this country, etc.

Ikil