Black Metal... why?
- Thread starter S<issors
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lol1!
like alot of the music I listen to, I'm torn between laughing at it and taking in 100% seriously. I love music that does that.
like alot of the music I listen to, I'm torn between laughing at it and taking in 100% seriously. I love music that does that.
RedinTheSky
Member
True. Good music transports the listener, is thought provoking, and fuels your imagination. It is also quite emotional. Black Metal is good music. I agree with this.
JoeVice
Member
No, the symbol is the work, which is the vehicle for the aesthetic. the work is created simultaneously by and conveys the aesthetic. symbol and aesthetic aren't actually separate, meaning it is impossible to truncate the art-work, since the aesthetic is the only means by which the artist and the audience can gauge.
BloodSword
Member
Based on the comment above, I'm sure everyone will be glad to know I won't be entering this topic of obliteration. Justin, I'm really relieved to hear that "I do not frequent, nor am I involved with anus. And if you do just remember to "clean" up.
uke:
MasterOLightning
Optimator
Darkthrone - As Flittermice As Satans Spys is built entirely around the doppler effect. Argue against its existence and you lose.
Don Corleone
Emre
MasterOLightning
Optimator
The progression of the notes simulates the effect, in the way sound is distorted when traveling towards or away from an object at a high speed. One can still experience the effect without actually being the object, meaning that a simulation is just as valid. For example, if you're watching an auto race, you're still hearing the doppler effect even if the audio doesn't pan from left to right.
This isn't solely why Transilvanian Hunger is so great. It's just one element in the music.
This isn't solely why Transilvanian Hunger is so great. It's just one element in the music.
Opethian666
Booze influenced
- Sep 17, 2005
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Why would you want to hear the doppler effect in your music? You already hear it all the time when you're not listening to music, in traffic, during sports with projectiles, etc... Imo, it's a desperate attempt at giving what I consider average black metal (darkthrone) more depth than it can actually offer. It's almost like Tool with their drum beats following a fibonacci row pattern. Who cares?
Don Corleone
Emre
JoeVice
Member
Justin S.
Member
Don, we've been over this before where it was more than adequately explained (in your thread, in response to your post, as I'm sure you remember).
The Doppler Effect is sound in motion. As a listener is approached by (or approaches) a source of sound, the shorter distance between the sound and the listener causes listener to hear the sound at a higher frequency (pitch), and a lower frequency as the source of the sound moves farther away. In practice, there is a second effect. As the source of sound draws nearer, less of the energy of the waves is dissipated as they pass through the medium, resulting in a higher amplitude and the perception of increasing volume (decreasing as the source grows more distant).
DarkThrone simulates this effect phrasally by increasing pitch and volume through the first half of a phrase, then decreasing both through the second half, creating the illusion of physical motion. Calling it a "Doppler Effect" is a perfect metaphorical shorthand for the process, and anyone with a brain should have been able to figure out the meaning of the phrase without needing to have it explained. It is a literary device, not a literal description of the physics of music.
Do you throw a fit when someone calls music 'melancholy'? After all, sound doesn't actually have feelings...
Justin S.
Member
The analogy is poor. Tool plays something (so they claim) derived from a priori ideas that are pure contrivance irrelevant to art (this is what "gimmick" means)- indeed, who cares?
Darkthrone did not sit down and write with the "doppler effect" in mind as a goal or a device. It is an apt description of one effect of their music upon the listener.
Simple shit, lets move along.
JoeVice
Member
what tool does is in no way irrelevant to the art. however they go about making their art is exactly why their art turns out the way it does.
i don't know if darkthrone sat down to write with the "doppler effect" in mind as a goal or a device, but they did simulate this effect phrasally by increasing pitch and volume through the first half of a phrase, then decreasing both through the second half, creating the illusion of physical motion.
Justin S.
Member
The symbol is not the (art)work, but the physical object or phenomena that signifies more than the mere object/phenomena (as symbol). The work of art is not an object. Part of the art-work is what is transmitted in this symbolic exchange, which is made possible first by the sensuous apprehension of the object/phenomena. The aesthetic (sensuous apprehension/response) is the vehicle for the symbolic transmission which is an important aspect of the work of art.
The symbolic and aesthetic are apprehended by integrated yet distinct faculties. The sensory manifold perceives the phenomena of the aesthetic. The "apparatus" of consciousness intuits/comprehends (instantiates) the symbolic exchange and the work of art in general. Not only is it possible to truncate the work of art, it is the standard mode. The appraisal of art is halted (truncated) at the aesthetic. The symbolic transmission is left ignored, let alone the existential work of art. This severance and reduction is displayed by your post when you state, "the aesthetic is the only means by which the artist and the audience can gauge."
Opethian666
Booze influenced
- Sep 17, 2005
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JoeVice said:
Ok, I just don't understand why people use this as a way of describing Darkthrone's music, as it's just one tiny element that bears no real significance.
. I think that everyone who's been through high school should know that, it's not exactly rocket science.That is debatable. I certainly don't consider myself shallow, especially with regards to music. "Seeing something" in this context means noticing and appreciating something in music. Whether you appreciate something in this case has little to do with being shallow, rather your own subjective set of values which you appreciate in music (of course, a certain set of values could be considered shallow by a majority of people, but then you'd have to point out the reason why I am shallow in this context). I don't especially enjoy Darkthrone's music for a number of reasons, but certainly not because I'm shallow. I could say that you don't like Limp Bizkit because you're shallow, and "you just don't see it", but that doesn't make it true. You are however correct that I am making perhaps too big a deal out of this, in the opposite direction of people like Armageddon's Child. However, when I made this previous post, I was quite bored and stoned, just like I am now.
In both cases, we have naturally occuring phenomena used in music, to somehow improve the quality of this music, and fans who seemingly make a big deal out of this. Of course, one could say the doppler effect is something more difficult too achieve, and grander in scope, but still. I did use the word "almost".
What I was referring to as being cared about was the effect of this phenomenon on the quality of the music. What I cared about by posting was the importance some Darkthrone fans attach to this effect. The importance of a concept and the concept itself are 2 different things, as you well know. Anyhow, I don't really know why I even responded to this, but as I said, I'm bored.
Seance
Still Writes in Crayon
iscariah says:
- did you hear the awesome doppolor effcet on tonsilvonion hungor?
abbath says:
- o rly
horgh says:
- shut up or i wil kil u
well that about sums up the last 2 pages of the thread
who cares? why would someone want to argue against its existence? I can't figure out how it's relevant or why anyone gives a fuck at all about it in the first place
MasterOLightning
Optimator
Actually, people like you seem to care much more about this than Darkthrone fans actually do. It was written about in an anus.com album review, but I had never heard a mention of this effect until people on this forum were having a laugh at the language used in that particular review. Then Darkthrone detractors constantly made fun of it. Of all the things to make fun of about that review, the doppler effect was the least effective to pick. It was actually a very good observation by the reviewer, while some of the other claims made were more of a stretch.
The constant pokes at this effect are just one of many ways non-black metal fans to try to discredit black metal fans, in an effort to justify why they don't like black metal. It is not so much that black metal enthusiasts are super hung up about any one particular point, but they don't want people blatantly lying about the music.
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