in my workplace, everyone's a hyped-up ultraspecialist. well, everyone in my department. most people have phd's from ivy league universities. i'm on the lower end of the spectrum, since i have a master's in a very technical subject from a blue chip UK university, but my phd was earned in italy, and anyway i don't have a knack for technical specialization (read: i'm a fraud). the amazing thing is that high school-level formation in the country is so well-rounded that you get people who know everything about time-series econometrics and still can quote ample chunks from dante.
chat, feelings, and random discussion thread
- Thread starter La Rocque
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I'll take back what I was saying about NJ drivers (partly): I witnessed 4-5 episodes of reckless driving on New Jersey Turnpike yesterday in the span of 15 minutes. Totally reckless, kind of when you get 6-8 points on your license. I didn't see the plates on teh cars, but it sure as hell was NJTpk.
And totally surreal - cutting off HUGE trucks by a few yards and rapidly changing lanes, speeding and without blinkers, using shoulder for passing...
Defensive driving.
And totally surreal - cutting off HUGE trucks by a few yards and rapidly changing lanes, speeding and without blinkers, using shoulder for passing...
Defensive driving.
Child of Time
Voice of reason
Ladies and Gentlemen,
do you know what your conscience looks like?
Yes? No?
I assume this is something highly personal and if anyone here actually happens to know how his or hers conscience looks like, I'd be delighted to hear about it. It would be very interesting to compare consciences.
Compare, I say, because I have seen my own conscience. In a dream. So, what kind of appearance might one expect from something as abstract as a conscience? If someone had asked me a couple of days ago, I would have been speechless. I mean, surely it must be something very vague in form, probably it doesn't even look like anything one have seen before. However, at least for me, that is not the case.
I will now tell you how my conscience looks.
*rhetorical pause, sips some water*
My conscience looks like a white Scottish terrier.
Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen.
do you know what your conscience looks like?
Yes? No?
I assume this is something highly personal and if anyone here actually happens to know how his or hers conscience looks like, I'd be delighted to hear about it. It would be very interesting to compare consciences.
Compare, I say, because I have seen my own conscience. In a dream. So, what kind of appearance might one expect from something as abstract as a conscience? If someone had asked me a couple of days ago, I would have been speechless. I mean, surely it must be something very vague in form, probably it doesn't even look like anything one have seen before. However, at least for me, that is not the case.
I will now tell you how my conscience looks.
*rhetorical pause, sips some water*
My conscience looks like a white Scottish terrier.
Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen.
Kovenant84
T-369 days
Nothing yet, but I'll let you know as soon as I do know. Although, I have to say, it'll be hard to trump a dog of any kind. Cute, friendly... all good.
Plin: What'd I tell you, huh? Just be glad you don't drive on the LIE. At least the TPK moves.
~kov.
Plin: What'd I tell you, huh? Just be glad you don't drive on the LIE. At least the TPK moves.
~kov.
LIE? Long Island Expressway?
I usually travel Garden State/Atlantic City Expwy, but haven't seen anything like that. Well, I've been driven while the driver was completely drunk, but even then I didn't witness such things.
BTW, I'm not buying a car - living in a city it's waste of money. I think of renting (NOT leasing) every time I need to go somewhere: it's around $100/weekend (including gas and all charges), no parking problems, no technical upkeep and shit. And I'm not ready for suburbia yet.
I usually travel Garden State/Atlantic City Expwy, but haven't seen anything like that. Well, I've been driven while the driver was completely drunk, but even then I didn't witness such things.
BTW, I'm not buying a car - living in a city it's waste of money. I think of renting (NOT leasing) every time I need to go somewhere: it's around $100/weekend (including gas and all charges), no parking problems, no technical upkeep and shit. And I'm not ready for suburbia yet.
Kovenant84
T-369 days
Smart move - really, I agree 100%. It's too fucking expensive by far.
And yeah, Long Island Expressway. So much goddamn traffic, all the goddamn time.
~kov.
nf: will wonders never cease?
while looking for men on a dating site, i stumbled on the profile of someone whose description looked familiar, especially when he claimed he could "feign competence in any subject". then came a part about wanting to conquer the world and wanting a partner that could escort him to state dinners. i read it again and again, until it clicked - the guy copied and pasted MY description from a very old profile, one nickname ago. of course he changed something here and there, but it was definitely my piece. it never happened to me before, and of course i saw fit to send him a message to know why he never contacted me if my message was so good that it had to be copied.
anyway, except from the fact that i feel like teh ultimate trendsetter, i would rather be able to get a glimpse of something different when i read people's descriptions. copying mine does not fit the bill.
while looking for men on a dating site, i stumbled on the profile of someone whose description looked familiar, especially when he claimed he could "feign competence in any subject". then came a part about wanting to conquer the world and wanting a partner that could escort him to state dinners. i read it again and again, until it clicked - the guy copied and pasted MY description from a very old profile, one nickname ago. of course he changed something here and there, but it was definitely my piece. it never happened to me before, and of course i saw fit to send him a message to know why he never contacted me if my message was so good that it had to be copied.
anyway, except from the fact that i feel like teh ultimate trendsetter, i would rather be able to get a glimpse of something different when i read people's descriptions. copying mine does not fit the bill.
nf: considerably angry.
last night a bunch of imbecilic football fans killed a policeman during a match. while i did not know the victim, a friend of mine (also a policeman) was there, and he just called to let me know the gruesome details. it's just unbearable to hear how people will show up at games with home-made bombs and team up against the police, while the cops - being trained with an eye to reason and common sense - of course react minimally, with the primary goal of containing the folly, i.e. keeping the idiotic citizen from hurting others without harming him if not strictly necessary. i'm all in favor of sensible policemen who do not shoot random cretins, but honestly, last night 70 cops were wounded (one of them very seriously), 1 was killed, while only 12 fans were hospitalized, all of them for minor stuff. it's ridiculous how policemen are sent to the slaughter every week (and it's not like they make big money out of it).
last night a bunch of imbecilic football fans killed a policeman during a match. while i did not know the victim, a friend of mine (also a policeman) was there, and he just called to let me know the gruesome details. it's just unbearable to hear how people will show up at games with home-made bombs and team up against the police, while the cops - being trained with an eye to reason and common sense - of course react minimally, with the primary goal of containing the folly, i.e. keeping the idiotic citizen from hurting others without harming him if not strictly necessary. i'm all in favor of sensible policemen who do not shoot random cretins, but honestly, last night 70 cops were wounded (one of them very seriously), 1 was killed, while only 12 fans were hospitalized, all of them for minor stuff. it's ridiculous how policemen are sent to the slaughter every week (and it's not like they make big money out of it).
Child of Time
Voice of reason
NF: Sentimental and silly. Today when I was on my way home from (p-)ikea with the bus, I saw 1) an old lady sitting on a bench with her dog (a Scottish terrier ) just enjoying the warmth of the sun and 2) two kids who were really ahveing fun running around and around a tree, and I was thinking "maybe life isn't that bad anyway". ( uke: ) Where's my nihilism!?
) just enjoying the warmth of the sun and 2) two kids who were really ahveing fun running around and around a tree, and I was thinking "maybe life isn't that bad anyway". ( uke: ) Where's my nihilism!? @hyena: i kinda understand how you feel. we've been having street fights here (in athens) between anarchists, who pose as students and just want to cause trouble, and policemen. they're protected from the university asylum (ie no police can enter a university territory). so they go in universities and trash the place whenever there's some problems between students and the government (like now) or every Nov 17. They even went into a church and started yelling on top of the priest's psalms and tried to stop the service, it was big on the news. What really made me mad though, was that they set a policeman on fire, and if that wasn't enough, a random anarchist was even posting tv screenshots of the 'event' online being all happy about it.
marduk1507
Member
Im not a hateful person, but honestly, Id have all these "protesters" and "football fans" shot or at least severely beaten.
the more i think of it, the more i conclude that political inclinations are, in part, a character trait. the greek anarchists who set cops on fire and our homegrown neo-nazi football fans who launch bombs against police cars were probably fascinated by graffiti on trains and depots when they were kids, they were drawn to 'alternative' culture of some sort, and they started to harbor the cult of eversion. i know because i have most definitely been there (although i limited my participation to books, records and haircuts, no militance to speak of) and explored both sides of the story. i can completely understand the draw, the emotions and also the feeling of pride that comes from adopting an 'outside' point of view. and it is exactly because i know the process inside out that i feel i can say that the object of passion - a political ideology, the colors of a football team, a particular type of music - basically gratifies aesthetic needs. people become foot soldiers for extreme causes because it gives them pleasure, primarily. regardless of whether we are talking of left-wing, right-wing or footbal team delirium, it's obvious that most arguments do not stand to any standard of reason. they could be deconstrued logically in about twenty minutes of discussion (contrary to, say, articles of religious faith, because most people - at least in the christian and jewish tradition - do not even try to claim a rational foundation to their belief). most militants know it, too; maybe teen anarchists really believe that their choice of clothing is going to "change the world", maybe teen fascists really believe that their random insulting of black people is going to "purify the race", maybe teen football fans really believe that their team is "worth living for", but come on, no adult can seriously buy into it. most people in these camps really choose not to exercise their critical faculties and they believe they are buying into the motto, but what they're doing really is putting words to an emotional attraction.
this said, how do we contain the fact that eversion turns some people on? i know that i was defused by being exposed to constant reasonableness and dialogue by my father, and finally by having to earn my living and make economic plans. while i do not believe that we can blame "society" for individual acts of violence, and i most firmly believe that punishment has to come first and support later, i wish that a larger number of parents sat down with their hothead kids and tried to show them the existence of other perspectives. it's hard, because a hothead kid will mostly give his parents the middle finger response, but yeah, it has to be done. where the "making plans" aspect is concerned, well, it's very difficult to have a desire for urban warfare when you have a mortgage; you'd rather have your house intact, thank you very much. of course my 16 year old self would have accusations of complacency and corruption ready... yeah right. but i would know how to respond: how does the refusal of complacency leads to anything else than not building anything until it's too late, for example? and so on.
i really think that the emotional draw of destructive symbols can be dampened by, well, having a life. it's also the reason why such symbols pull very powerfully both the dispossessed and those who do not have factual responsibility over their existence (say, kids who live with their parents and depend financially on them).
this said, how do we contain the fact that eversion turns some people on? i know that i was defused by being exposed to constant reasonableness and dialogue by my father, and finally by having to earn my living and make economic plans. while i do not believe that we can blame "society" for individual acts of violence, and i most firmly believe that punishment has to come first and support later, i wish that a larger number of parents sat down with their hothead kids and tried to show them the existence of other perspectives. it's hard, because a hothead kid will mostly give his parents the middle finger response, but yeah, it has to be done. where the "making plans" aspect is concerned, well, it's very difficult to have a desire for urban warfare when you have a mortgage; you'd rather have your house intact, thank you very much. of course my 16 year old self would have accusations of complacency and corruption ready... yeah right. but i would know how to respond: how does the refusal of complacency leads to anything else than not building anything until it's too late, for example? and so on.
i really think that the emotional draw of destructive symbols can be dampened by, well, having a life. it's also the reason why such symbols pull very powerfully both the dispossessed and those who do not have factual responsibility over their existence (say, kids who live with their parents and depend financially on them).
marduk1507
Member
Hmm, very interesting. I basically agree with everything you said. I will always advocate the idea that no matter how hard your life as a parent or a kid might be, you still should do everything you can to prevent something like that from happening by talking to your children and at least trying to suggest reasonable perspectives. Theres always the dilemma between open arms and forgiveness for almost everything and a lot more serious upbringing that includes responsibility and when necessary, also punishment. Its very hard to find the right balance. I can only base my views on my relationship with my brother, as I dont have any kids yet. He is my brother and I love him very much, but he also works for me as a translator, and he does things (not only business-wise, in everyday life as well), which are hard to handle, because of that fucking dilemma. To make it short, the metaphor of a parent can be applied to anyone and anything, including the society, and imo what causes the trouble is the constant inability to find the right balance between prevention and repression.
rahvin
keeper of the flame
Let alone the public outcry should a policeman so much as raise a finger to save his own life: that'd be police brutality against poor, defenseless football fans.
stardrowned
The doctor is in...
@blackash: no, i live in Italy. in England the problem was really serious, but it was taken care of some years ago - it was fairly simple: effective, immediate punishment for violent acts against the police, and sale of stadiums to clubs.
if fans are aggressive, they get arrested; if they thrash the place, the club pays. the firms moved to fighting in the middle of the street, of course, and there is no way to eradicate violence per se, but at least ordinary people can go to matches without fearing for their lives; both civilian and police casualties have been greatly reduced, because people don't get caught in the cross-fire anymore.
in this country, the only weapon that authorities have against the worst 'fans' is something called the DaSpo, which is basically a restraint order against known hooligans - while a match is being played they have to go to the police station and sign a register. they don't have to stay for the whole duration of the match, however, so they are at liberty to wait for rival fans outside the stadium as soon as it's over (and this is the main circumstance of fighting these days).
the government that preceded the current one passed a law stating that hooligans who have been videotaped while committing violent acts could be arrested up to 36 hours after the match (to allow time for careful tape-viewing) and be detained as if they were caught in the act, ie with the possibility of a fast trial. however, the very same government repealed the law, based on the pressure of some small extremist right-wing groups that are very popular with hooligans.
the current government did not help the criminals directly, but it overlooked guiltily the fact that most stadiums do not comply with the legal security requirements. a batch of football-related laws require people to have a personal ticket with their name on it, to carry ID, and to refrain from covering their features with team scarves (concealing features is a crime per se, but it is specifically mentioned in football-related laws, with the usual excess of regulations in the absence of any material implementation). unfortunately, most hard-core football firms get free group tickets from the clubs, and hence bypass the law.
last night, my cop friend was telling me how hooligans routinely show up to stadium gates with beer in hand, and when the police tell them 'you can't bring alcohol inside the stadium' they just guzzle it down and laugh in the face of policemen.
what rahvin said is also very true. these days, the news media have thought it wise to accord interviews to 'top boys' of football firms, who appeared on TV with their face covered by mephistos, and spewed hatred against the police. there was tremendous publicity for a bunch of 'all cops are bastards' and similar graffiti popping up in several cities. the reporters of course condemned these people, but they were still interviewing them on their show rather than reporting them to the authorities.
on the other hand, you will all know what happened at the G8 protests in Genoa six years ago: a cop shot a protester and killed him, then all hell broke loose. the protester was sporting a heavy fire estinguisher and aiming it at the police. the police car had been cornered and targeted by a volley of stones. those who were coordinating the containment service were probably superficial - we still had the draft, which has since been abolished, and there were young draftees with no experience at all having to stay alive through that hell -, but still the shooter didn't need to be crucified. also, 42 more cops were brought to trial for suspected beatings and counterfeiting of evidence.
as i said, i'm not in favor of arbitrary police brutality, and i'm glad to know that people who have to guarantee my security are more level-headed than a bunch of football casuals. still, there is a tendency to blame the police rather than the criminals.
i remember that in 2003 one of the major news programs in the country ran a tragically ridiculous feature on how the video provided by the police on the G8 facts was supposedly played in reverse to show cops receding rather than advancing - yes, and it probably contained a satanic message.
edit mark 1: tomorrow, the funerals of the dead policeman are going to be held. i honestly hope that hooligans do not show up. i heard that some of them wanted to be present as a form of repentance and tribute, but it would still be unwise.
edit mark 2: and of course, sicily being sicily (no offense to individual sicilians), it's also very hard to tell where the football hooliganism at a catania-palermo match ends, and where organized crime starts.
if fans are aggressive, they get arrested; if they thrash the place, the club pays. the firms moved to fighting in the middle of the street, of course, and there is no way to eradicate violence per se, but at least ordinary people can go to matches without fearing for their lives; both civilian and police casualties have been greatly reduced, because people don't get caught in the cross-fire anymore.
in this country, the only weapon that authorities have against the worst 'fans' is something called the DaSpo, which is basically a restraint order against known hooligans - while a match is being played they have to go to the police station and sign a register. they don't have to stay for the whole duration of the match, however, so they are at liberty to wait for rival fans outside the stadium as soon as it's over (and this is the main circumstance of fighting these days).
the government that preceded the current one passed a law stating that hooligans who have been videotaped while committing violent acts could be arrested up to 36 hours after the match (to allow time for careful tape-viewing) and be detained as if they were caught in the act, ie with the possibility of a fast trial. however, the very same government repealed the law, based on the pressure of some small extremist right-wing groups that are very popular with hooligans.
the current government did not help the criminals directly, but it overlooked guiltily the fact that most stadiums do not comply with the legal security requirements. a batch of football-related laws require people to have a personal ticket with their name on it, to carry ID, and to refrain from covering their features with team scarves (concealing features is a crime per se, but it is specifically mentioned in football-related laws, with the usual excess of regulations in the absence of any material implementation). unfortunately, most hard-core football firms get free group tickets from the clubs, and hence bypass the law.
last night, my cop friend was telling me how hooligans routinely show up to stadium gates with beer in hand, and when the police tell them 'you can't bring alcohol inside the stadium' they just guzzle it down and laugh in the face of policemen.
what rahvin said is also very true. these days, the news media have thought it wise to accord interviews to 'top boys' of football firms, who appeared on TV with their face covered by mephistos, and spewed hatred against the police. there was tremendous publicity for a bunch of 'all cops are bastards' and similar graffiti popping up in several cities. the reporters of course condemned these people, but they were still interviewing them on their show rather than reporting them to the authorities.
on the other hand, you will all know what happened at the G8 protests in Genoa six years ago: a cop shot a protester and killed him, then all hell broke loose. the protester was sporting a heavy fire estinguisher and aiming it at the police. the police car had been cornered and targeted by a volley of stones. those who were coordinating the containment service were probably superficial - we still had the draft, which has since been abolished, and there were young draftees with no experience at all having to stay alive through that hell -, but still the shooter didn't need to be crucified. also, 42 more cops were brought to trial for suspected beatings and counterfeiting of evidence.
as i said, i'm not in favor of arbitrary police brutality, and i'm glad to know that people who have to guarantee my security are more level-headed than a bunch of football casuals. still, there is a tendency to blame the police rather than the criminals.
i remember that in 2003 one of the major news programs in the country ran a tragically ridiculous feature on how the video provided by the police on the G8 facts was supposedly played in reverse to show cops receding rather than advancing - yes, and it probably contained a satanic message.
edit mark 1: tomorrow, the funerals of the dead policeman are going to be held. i honestly hope that hooligans do not show up. i heard that some of them wanted to be present as a form of repentance and tribute, but it would still be unwise.
edit mark 2: and of course, sicily being sicily (no offense to individual sicilians), it's also very hard to tell where the football hooliganism at a catania-palermo match ends, and where organized crime starts.
Didnt the chef of police hire some "hooligans", to fire up the conflict so he could intervene drastically and show what a hardass and competent police chef he is?
Also, Ive heard numerous (credible) reports of police brutality and dubious stuff..
Lina
kickass elizabethan style
marduk1507
Member
You, and me, and her, simultaneous... - Status
