COF - are they pop??
- Thread starter Klaha
- Start date
Blue Moon
Staring at the Sun
Greetings.
Personally, I quite enjoy the Filth's music, lyrics (say what you want, but those lyrics were not made on a single night while getting drunk like so many metal acts these days) and even Dani's vocals. It's not my favorite band on the metal side of music, I do not have all their albums and I surely don't own a shirt. Okay, I have a poster, but damn, Elizabeth Bathory is nonetheless cute... No ?
On the matter of originality...
Dani's vocals : give me one band that used that particular type of vocals before CoF, and give me bands that used them after they appeared on the scene (I'm thinking Hecate Enthroned here, but there may be more). I think they were refreshing on the first album, and if you listen to every subsequent album, they always changed a bit, never staying the same. Like the pitch of the vocals on Dusk is (almost) always the same, and on Cruelty it changes, and so on. And, for Belzebuth's sake (hehe I'm tired), I can't see how they can be considered pop !
BTW, I can't name bands that CoF totally copied when they did Principle, but I could name a few bands that copied their style grossly.
On the theatrical aspect of the band...
Well, this is one of the major reason why I like them !! I'm not talking about the visual aspect, but of the musical approach. They're not communicating personnal feelings in their music, they're telling stories, wich I happen to like a lot. Lots of bands and artists have done so in the past, and I think Cof can be as succesful at it as many of those bands (think Operation : Mindcrime by Queensryche, Brave by Marillion, The Lamb Lies down on Broadway by Genesis, you get the picture).
As for the visuals... I've never seen any show, so I can't tell. As for the image they want everybody to have of them... yes, they're overdoing it. But I think they are particularly aware of this, and I think that after being so popular, they wanted to become a Grand Guignol-type of band, where everything is exagerated. Anyway, this leads me to something else, a more delicate subject matter : their popularity.
Just a thought : What would you do if you have a band, and not any type of band ; a band that plays, whatever others might say, Black metal. It's extreme, it's provocative, much more than, let's say, Slipknot, or whatever. As soon as you started playing in that band, you knew you would not be popular. The best you could achieve would be to be well respected by the fans of that type of music, do lots of shows in small venues, have those "in the know" be aware of your name and your achievements.
But through clever moves ('got to mention the big success of their t-shirts worldwide, wich could be called a "marketing scheme") and a unique sound, the unthinkable is on the other side of the door : celebrity and massive recognition. What do you do ?? You've got the chance to live by your music, to forget about shitty part-time jobs, whatever, AND without compromising yourself too-much by selling out. Some bands would've decided to stay underground, others would have chosen to cross the gap, at the risk of losing a few (or several) fans that do not quite understand the move. In any case, who's to blame ? I, for one, respect someone who achieves his/her dream and, in the case of CoF, they've fulfilled a dream that I don't think they've even wished for in the first place.
And I think they've proven to the world that metal (and I'm not talking about new metal) is NOT dead ; in the following years, I think that a few more acts will achieve the same. Good for them. At least they're not forced (well I don't think so and I hope not) to change their musical style for the machine that gravitate around them.
Well, sorry for the long post.
Personally, I quite enjoy the Filth's music, lyrics (say what you want, but those lyrics were not made on a single night while getting drunk like so many metal acts these days) and even Dani's vocals. It's not my favorite band on the metal side of music, I do not have all their albums and I surely don't own a shirt. Okay, I have a poster, but damn, Elizabeth Bathory is nonetheless cute... No ?
On the matter of originality...
Dani's vocals : give me one band that used that particular type of vocals before CoF, and give me bands that used them after they appeared on the scene (I'm thinking Hecate Enthroned here, but there may be more). I think they were refreshing on the first album, and if you listen to every subsequent album, they always changed a bit, never staying the same. Like the pitch of the vocals on Dusk is (almost) always the same, and on Cruelty it changes, and so on. And, for Belzebuth's sake (hehe I'm tired), I can't see how they can be considered pop !
BTW, I can't name bands that CoF totally copied when they did Principle, but I could name a few bands that copied their style grossly.
On the theatrical aspect of the band...
Well, this is one of the major reason why I like them !! I'm not talking about the visual aspect, but of the musical approach. They're not communicating personnal feelings in their music, they're telling stories, wich I happen to like a lot. Lots of bands and artists have done so in the past, and I think Cof can be as succesful at it as many of those bands (think Operation : Mindcrime by Queensryche, Brave by Marillion, The Lamb Lies down on Broadway by Genesis, you get the picture).
As for the visuals... I've never seen any show, so I can't tell. As for the image they want everybody to have of them... yes, they're overdoing it. But I think they are particularly aware of this, and I think that after being so popular, they wanted to become a Grand Guignol-type of band, where everything is exagerated. Anyway, this leads me to something else, a more delicate subject matter : their popularity.
Just a thought : What would you do if you have a band, and not any type of band ; a band that plays, whatever others might say, Black metal. It's extreme, it's provocative, much more than, let's say, Slipknot, or whatever. As soon as you started playing in that band, you knew you would not be popular. The best you could achieve would be to be well respected by the fans of that type of music, do lots of shows in small venues, have those "in the know" be aware of your name and your achievements.
But through clever moves ('got to mention the big success of their t-shirts worldwide, wich could be called a "marketing scheme") and a unique sound, the unthinkable is on the other side of the door : celebrity and massive recognition. What do you do ?? You've got the chance to live by your music, to forget about shitty part-time jobs, whatever, AND without compromising yourself too-much by selling out. Some bands would've decided to stay underground, others would have chosen to cross the gap, at the risk of losing a few (or several) fans that do not quite understand the move. In any case, who's to blame ? I, for one, respect someone who achieves his/her dream and, in the case of CoF, they've fulfilled a dream that I don't think they've even wished for in the first place.
And I think they've proven to the world that metal (and I'm not talking about new metal) is NOT dead ; in the following years, I think that a few more acts will achieve the same. Good for them. At least they're not forced (well I don't think so and I hope not) to change their musical style for the machine that gravitate around them.
Well, sorry for the long post.
Cradle is indeed one big circus but they have never said they aren't. One can don't like their style but "Cruelty..." and "Dusk..." are music masterpieces and there's no question about it.
~Zeanra~
Tandtroll
I usually don't listen bands which are popular. I mean popular in a way that almost everyone,like a 12 year-old hip hopper, wears their shirts,owns some of their cds and says they fuckin' rock.
I have to say,that I quite a like Gradle's music (though I only have "Dusk..") Many of my friends hate that band because "everyone listens to it", but not me. Their style,lyrics...it just hits me.
I have to say,that I quite a like Gradle's music (though I only have "Dusk..") Many of my friends hate that band because "everyone listens to it", but not me. Their style,lyrics...it just hits me.
Russell
__
~Zeanra~
Tandtroll
dill_the_devil
OneMetal.com Music Editor
Originally posted by Mayh
!!!Opeth are NOT black metal!!!
Hey, I didn't say they were, I just meant COF are (Using the term rather loosely, don't want to offend any Black Metal purists here
)YES!!!
TexasFriedCriminal
p a s s e n g e r
so here I am, wanting to post my opinion, just to find it's been posted.
thnks for the long post
on a personal note :
I like Dusk... the best, and from that one on descending, with Vempire in second place. Bitter Suites... is imho quite crappy, sounding like they wanted to be morbid angel (something at which immortal failed before them...)
thnks for the long post
on a personal note :
I like Dusk... the best, and from that one on descending, with Vempire in second place. Bitter Suites... is imho quite crappy, sounding like they wanted to be morbid angel (something at which immortal failed before them...)
Hey, I listen stuff like Pink Floyd, Queen, The Eagles... so what!! they are popular and I like their music
i dont listen cradle because I dont like satanism
thats all
i dont listen cradle because I dont like satanism
thats all
i don't see how anyone can say CoF sucks, because they don't. they are very good musicians. you may not like them and anyone can hate them, but that doesn't mean they suck. and i don't understand why people bash dani's vocals, they're a lot more dynamic than shagrath's or any other black metal vocalist i've ever heard. granite i am annoyed by the path that CoF has turned to, they were at their pinnacle with Cruelty and the Beast, wich is a fucking great album, after that they went downhill, but they still don't suck. ya their image sucks now, but that's life, it sucks, but that's dani for ya, he's a bombastic type of guy, heh if anything he at least writes better lyrics than any other black metal band, ehh more complicated is better put, sometimes they're too damn confusing
they aren't satanic, they show signs against christianity but are not really satanic, heh dimmu borgir is a lot more satanic than CoF
my best buy has iced earth, cradle of filth, dimmu borgir, emperor, slayer, opeth, and a few others, but they're still missing a lot
Absoloutely nothing wrong with Queen and Pink Floyd. Just becuase they aren't all wearing black eyeshadow and long black coats. Brian May and Slash can play guitars better than any one else in thwe world (that ain't an opiniun thats a fact) and Freddie Mercury probably managed to sleep with loads more women than any " gothic rockstar" could. So there. Queen rule. So do Pink Floyd. So do U2. So does Jools Holland. Leave em alone.
Blue Moon
Staring at the Sun
Greetings.
Hmmm... Not that it's wrong for me or anything, but... Wasn't Freddie Mercury actually gay ?? Or was all my life based upon a pathetic lie ?
(well in fact I don't listen to much Queen, so I may actually be totally wrong.)
Hmmm... Not that it's wrong for me or anything, but... Wasn't Freddie Mercury actually gay ?? Or was all my life based upon a pathetic lie ?
(well in fact I don't listen to much Queen, so I may actually be totally wrong.)
Dunkelheit
Lost Wisdom
If Cradle of Filth accept the term "gothic," then that says enough about them in a single word. In analysis of the gothic subculture, nothing truly dark or evil will be found at all. What is to be found are a sorry lot of so-called "depressed" people with bad hair, listening to bad music, and writing even worse poetry. If you want to hear true black metal, then listen to old Burzum or Darkthrone. If Dani Filth is goth, then he might as well be labeled a vegetarian, peace-loving, wiccan, effeminate, bisexual, fat, "poetic," vampire wearing vinyl.
Russell
__
Nice to see you haven't generalised ther at all! I think you have the dubious honour of being the first "troo" black metaller on the boards! 
terria
Subterranean dharma-bum
believe it or not, i even like some songs by korn (what a shame ) apart from the usual standard (arcturus, opeth, dark tranquillity, townsend, waits, tull blabla) and not lístening to music because othwers do (or don't) definitely dodally dumb (just too keep the alliteration).
back to the topic: both cof and db suck a lot (although simen and nicklas are very respectable as musicians) but still cradle were, in my eyes the better ones when it all started...
stormblast is, compared to to the first cof just weak. to eve the art of witchcraft was pure energy but the borgs...
blah.
) apart from the usual standard (arcturus, opeth, dark tranquillity, townsend, waits, tull blabla) and not lístening to music because othwers do (or don't) definitely dodally dumb (just too keep the alliteration).back to the topic: both cof and db suck a lot (although simen and nicklas are very respectable as musicians) but still cradle were, in my eyes the better ones when it all started...
stormblast is, compared to to the first cof just weak. to eve the art of witchcraft was pure energy but the borgs...
blah.
Russell
__
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