Controversial opinions on metal

[Slayed Necros]

Allow me to really rustle some jimmies here:

DsO's best material is Manifestations 2002

Not far off! I prefer Inquisitors of Satan and the stuff from various splits that eventually ended up on Manifestations 2000-2001, especially the tracks originally on the split with Clandestine Blaze.

 

[JontRevolting]

I have'nt given a rats ass about lyrics for quite a few years now...used to enjoy'em when I was younger,especially those going for the shock factor but as i've gotten older i only seem to care about the music.It's all just music anyhow.

 

[TheInsane]

I'm not into the whole 'Lyrics don't matter, it's just riffs bro' attitude that's widespread in metal. I think lyrics matter. Sufficiently bad lyrics can sort of ruin an album for me. I wouldn't dislike an album simply because it had Christian themes though. It really depends upon the details of how it's presented.

Agreed!

I think awesome lyrics can help a mediocre song. Bad lyrics can also bring a song down with them. Even if the music may be more important I can actually disregard a band if they have shitty lyrics (one of the reasons I never like Cannibal Corpse all that much - they are gore sure but its not well written or humorous its just bad).

 

[sevag00]

I have'nt given a rats ass about lyrics for quite a few years now...used to enjoy'em when I was younger,especially those going for the shock factor but as i've gotten older i only seem to care about the music.It's all just music anyhow.

I agree with this. I too don't give a shit about lyrics, it's all about the music. It's not like i'm going to sing along with a black metal vocalist to give a damn to those lyrics.

 

[Blind Guardian]

THESE MOUNTAINS WHICH I HEART

Sorry but I need to stay away from the lyric sheets of some bands in order to be able to take them seriously.

 

[JontRevolting]

Immortal's lyrics are great because of the Norwenglish.

 

[Cythraul]

I find it almost impossible to believe that there are extreme metal fans who don't care about lyrics at all. Now, you might not bother to read the lyrics to any of the albums you like, and that's fine. But it's quite frequently the case that extreme metal vocals are at least sometimes intelligible, and you can't tell me with a straight face that that music would have the same impact if the lyrics were entirely different in those cases. A couple examples: I can pick out what Attila is saying at certain points in the song "Freezing Moon." Now what if when he uttered the phrase "the freezing moon" he instead said something like "I like shopping"? Would I engage with the music in the same way in that case? No! Or just the other day I was listening to the song "Stormgods Unbound" by Angelcorpse. When Pete Helmkamp growls "stormgods unbouunnnnd" it is entirely appropriate to the song. What if he instead said something like "Nigerian clowwwnnnsss"? That song would not have the same impact. That is something that simply does not work, and it would stick out like a sore thumb and make the experience quite different.

It's true that there is lots of extreme metal where the vocals aren't intelligible at all. I don't know if that radically changes anything here. Here's a test: Imagine you're in a black metal band and you are the vocalist. What sort of lyrics would you write? Would you write about what you ate for lunch that day? Why not? Wouldn't that be easier than trying to come up with something? I find it hard to believe that anybody would actually want to do this unless they're purposely trying to make joke music. I think part of the reason that people say they don't care about lyrics is that they go in just assuming that their music is dealing with some limited range of topics and don't bother to inquire further into the details because obviously their assumption is reliable. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong here. People listen to Christian black metal. How far would people be willing to go with that sort of thing? Would they be willing to listen to Shopping Black Metal or Burrito Black Metal or What I Had for Lunch Black Metal? Would they take it as seriously as they do other sorts of black metal?

Anyway, the more important thing to be aware of is that there are other ways to engage with music besides 'whoa, check out that riff, man.' If you are into metal primarily for its visceral, sonic impact, then I can see why you might not care much about lyrics. The problem is that some people act like that's the only reasonable way of engaging with this sort of music. But that attitude is mistaken.

 

[JontRevolting]

I seriously think that a person who's listened to metal for(many) years would'nt be listening to music with lyrics about shopping,unless they be listening to Birdflesh or something along similar lines.It has to flow and be in line with the band/concept/music.But i'd have thought that'd be a given.

 

[Cythraul]

Well, there are two different issues here. One concerns lyrical themes and the other concerns lyrical artistry. Some people might care about neither, in which case they would be okay with listening to black metal with badly written lyrics about eating burritos. On the other hand, somebody might care about lyrical themes but not really care about lyrical artistry. Those would be the sort of people who don't want to listen to Christian black metal but don't really care whether or not lyrics are well-written. So I'm not always clear on what people mean when they say they don't care about lyrics. I think it's probably the case that most metal fans care that their music deals with some particular range of topics but don't care as much about how well the lyrics are written.

 

[JontRevolting]

Agreed....Two bands whom I consider to have tremendous lyrics,because of the points you've mentioned would have to be Immortal and Arghoslent.Immortal's lyrics are beyond retarded if taken out've context or for a person who's new to the band.Imagine picking up an Immortal inlay for the first time and reading the stuff they have in their lyrics sheet,yet it fits the band and music perfectly.Another is Arghoslent(your favourite band hehe),i'm not down with the racist crew but I swear they've put alot of effort and research into their lyrics and I still can't for the life of me figure out whether they are pro-racist or writing from a purely historical point of view...definately they are a band who's lyrics have put them a step or two above most for me.

 

[Blind Guardian]

Feel free to drop some bands with good lyrics. Personally I really like the lyrics of At The Gates, as their existential themes are applicable in so many contexts. What makes them even more interesting to read is that they are written like poetry, as opposed to the straight forward 'prose' of most metal bands. Even if you don't bother to interpret them, the very expressions in themselves are beautiful. This is an interesting mix of two artforms that hasn't been tried enough I think.

The key of light, the solution of all
I saw it clearly behind the veil of reality
And as I dreamed the lilies white
In the shade of a birch
They withered in the frost of awakening

Fiery the angels fell from the spires of my fortress of youth
Silent explosions in my universe of pain

Appease my hunger, defeat my solitude
And let me follow where daydreams go
When ambitions fall

Watch the sky, there is proof of your transcience
The stars that saw the birth of our ancestors
Shall watch our descendants last steps on earth
So, unnoticed we will pass away,
Like a flickering in the perpetual chaos

 

[Zephyrus]

I used to disregard lyrics as important to the music. But that was mainly because I was still Christian.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Jesus.

One of the things that sets metal apart from other music is the fact that it allows (an encourages) all musicians in the band to show of their skills, and refine them. I'd rather listen to a band where every member knows what he/she is doing, than listen to a band where no one knows what they're doing.

Some of the best metal ever is raw and simplistic without the band members ever displaying much skill. Liking music for technical skill is pretty fucking superficial.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

Lyrics are secondary to me, and I feel that is wholly appropriate. It's just like the bass guitar. Most people don't give a shit about the bass until it sticks out like a sore, fart-sounding thumb (a lot of tech-death bands come to mind). Most of the time, I don't give a fuck about the lyrics, but when they are atrocious, I am less likely to enjoy the song. As for black metal bands singing about shopping and burritos, if it was done in a tongue and cheek, clever way, I wouldn't mind, so long as the song was instrumentally good. I mean, I enjoy Arcturus, and they have songs about ridiculous topics such as pirates from outer space. On the other hand, despite the fact that I love In Flames (especially Clayman and everything previous), I am bothered by the "Swedelish" here and there, such as on the song "Scorn" when he pronounces "gravel" in a way in which it rhymes with "navel".

 

[Sven Pakkanen]

I don't agree at all. If a band musically is good, but with christian lyrics then I'll pass.

 

[Vossyrus]

I find it almost impossible to believe that there are extreme metal fans who don't care about lyrics at all. Now, you might not bother to read the lyrics to any of the albums you like, and that's fine. But it's quite frequently the case that extreme metal vocals are at least sometimes intelligible, and you can't tell me with a straight face that that music would have the same impact if the lyrics were entirely different in those cases. A couple examples: I can pick out what Attila is saying at certain points in the song "Freezing Moon." Now what if when he uttered the phrase "the freezing moon" he instead said something like "I like shopping"? Would I engage with the music in the same way in that case? No! Or just the other day I was listening to the song "Stormgods Unbound" by Angelcorpse. When Pete Helmkamp growls "stormgods unbouunnnnd" it is entirely appropriate to the song. What if he instead said something like "Nigerian clowwwnnnsss"? That song would not have the same impact. That is something that simply does not work, and it would stick out like a sore thumb and make the experience quite different.

It's true that there is lots of extreme metal where the vocals aren't intelligible at all. I don't know if that radically changes anything here. Here's a test: Imagine you're in a black metal band and you are the vocalist. What sort of lyrics would you write? Would you write about what you ate for lunch that day? Why not? Wouldn't that be easier than trying to come up with something? I find it hard to believe that anybody would actually want to do this unless they're purposely trying to make joke music. I think part of the reason that people say they don't care about lyrics is that they go in just assuming that their music is dealing with some limited range of topics and don't bother to inquire further into the details because obviously their assumption is reliable. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong here. People listen to Christian black metal. How far would people be willing to go with that sort of thing? Would they be willing to listen to Shopping Black Metal or Burrito Black Metal or What I Had for Lunch Black Metal? Would they take it as seriously as they do other sorts of black metal?

Anyway, the more important thing to be aware of is that there are other ways to engage with music besides 'whoa, check out that riff, man.' If you are into metal primarily for its visceral, sonic impact, then I can see why you might not care much about lyrics. The problem is that some people act like that's the only reasonable way of engaging with this sort of music. But that attitude is mistaken.

I find it strange also that people say they don't care about lyrics. I wish every band had good lyrics because that's something that can really enhance the music. Bad lyrics, on the other hand, will make me question the band.

If metal bands had lyrics that you would expect from Limp Bizkit, hardcore gangsta rap, or the usual crap about women, love, relationships, I'd be appalled.

Just imagine a black metal band with these lyrics:

Fred : Say what, say what? (x4)

Jon : My dick is bigger than yours...

Fred : Say what, say what? (x3)

Jon : My band is bigger than yours...

Fred : Too bad I got your beans in my bag,
stuck-up sucka, corny motherfucka'.
Takin' over flows is the Limp pimp,
need a Bizkit to save this group from Jon Davis.
I'm gonna drop a little east side skill,
ya best step back 'cuz Imma kill,
Imma kill.
So watcha thinking Mr. Raggedy man?
Doin' all you can to look like Raggedy Ann.

Jon : Check you out punk,
yes I know you feel it.
You look like one of those dancers from the Hanson video,
you little faget ho.
Please give me some shit to work with,
'cuz right now I'm all it kid,
suck my dick kid, like your daddy did.

Fred : Who the fuck you think you're talking to??

Jon : Me.

Fred : I'm known for eatin' little whiny chumps like you.

Jon : Whatever.

Fred : All up in my face with that...

Jon : Are you ready?!?

Fred : But halitosis, is all you're rockin' steady.
You little fairy, smelling all your flowers.
Nappy hairy chest, look it's Austin Powers!

Jon : oh Yeah, baby!

Fred : I hear ya tweetin' on them fag-pipes clod,
but you said it best, there's No Place To Hide.

Jon : What the fuck ya' sayin'?
You're a pimp whateva', limp dick.
Fred Durst needs to rehearse,
needs to reverse what he's saying.
Wannabe funk-joke is what you're playin',
rippin' up a bad counterfeit,
fakin'! Plus your bills I'm paying,
you can't eat that shit every day,
Fred. Lay off the bacon.

Fred : Say what, say what?
You better watch your fuckin' mouth, Jon.

CHORUS:
Jon:So you hate me!
Fred: And I hate you!
Jon: You know what, you know what
Both: It's all in the family

Jon: I hate you!
Fred: And you hate me!
Jon: You know what,
Both: It's all in the family

Jon : Look at you fool,
I'm gonna fuck you up twice,
throwin' rhymes at me like,
oh shit alive, like Vanilla Ice. Ya better run,
run while ya can, can never fuck me up,
Bizkit. At least I got a phat,
original band.

Fred : Who's hot, who's not?

Jon : You.

Fred : You best step back, Korn on the cob,
you need a new job.
Time to take them mic skills back to the dentist,
and buy yourself a new grill.

Jon : Fuck you.

Fred : You pumpkin pie,
I'll jack-off in your eye.
Climbing shoots and ladders,
while your ego shatters.
But you just can't get away.

Jon : Cus your gay?

Fred : 'Cuz it's doomsday kid, it's doomsday.

CHORUS

Fred : You call yourself a singer?

Jon : Yep.

Fred : You're more like Jerry Springer.

Jon : Oh cool!

Fred : Your favorite band is winger,

Jon : Winger?

Fred : and all you eat is Zingers.
You're like a Fruity Pebble,
your favorite flag is rebel.

Jon : Yeeeeeehaaaaaa!!

Fred : It's just too bad that you're a fag,
and on a lower level.

Jon : So you're from Jacksonville,
kickin' it like Buffalo Bill.
Gettin' butt-fucked by your uncle Chuck,
while your sister's on her
knees waitin' for your little grapenut

Fred : Hey, where'd ya get that little dance?

Jon : Over here.

Fred : Like them idiots in Waco,
you're burning up in Bako where your father had your mother,
your mother had your brother,

Jon: Nah!
Fred: it's just too bad your father's mad,
your mother's now your lover.

Jon : Come on hillbilly,
can your horse do a fuckin' wheely?
You've been livin' down south, and boy,
you sure do got a purdy mouth.

CHORUS

Jon : and I love you!

Fred : and I want you!

Jon : and I'll suck you!

Fred : and I'll fuck you!

Jon : and I'll butt-fuck you!

Fred : and I'll eat you!

Jon : and I'll lick your little dick, motherfucka'.

Fred : Say what, say...What?

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

I can understand ignoring lyrics that's don't particularly impact otherwise fine music, but I fucking detest people that don't concern themselves with the lyrical/thematic/conceptual side of the music at all. Some lyrics have the potential to add so many dimensions to the music that it completely alters the nature of the work at hand, and failing to at least give them a shot is indicative of being a surface dwelling douchebag imo.

 

[Slayed Necros]

Anyway, the more important thing to be aware of is that there are other ways to engage with music besides 'whoa, check out that riff, man.' If you are into metal primarily for its visceral, sonic impact, then I can see why you might not care much about lyrics. The problem is that some people act like that's the only reasonable way of engaging with this sort of music. But that attitude is mistaken.

This sums up my thoughts. Good post.

 

[Dagon666]

Some of the best metal ever is raw and simplistic without the band members ever displaying much skill. Liking music for technical skill is pretty fucking superficial.

Sure, simplicity can work very well in some cases. I used to hate too technical metal when I was younger, but nowdays I tend to search for talented technical bands only.

Lyrics goes hand in hand with music, but a good piece of text will never beat a good riff in my book.

/thread

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

A couple examples: I can pick out what Attila is saying at certain points in the song "Freezing Moon." Now what if when he uttered the phrase "the freezing moon" he instead said something like "I like shopping"? Would I engage with the music in the same way in that case? No!