Controversial opinions on metal

[SentinelSlain]

A lot of people seem to dislike Hell Awaits and I just don't get it. True, it doesn't quite have the energy of Show No Mercy or the ferocity of Reign In Blood, but it makes up for it with superior songwriting and atmosphere. Damn that album has some serious atmosphere.

There is something about it that stops me from totally getting into a lot of the songs. I just prefer most other classic slayer albums.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Glad to see Slayer getting some love around here once in a while. They were releasing solid material up until the mid 90's i'd say. Dont know about most of you guys, but i fucking love Divine Intervention.

And While Haunting the Chapel, SoH, Seasons and Hell Awaits all fucking slay, id have to say their best two albums are Show No Mercy and Reign in Blood.

 

[Satanstoenail]

I actually enjoy Divine intervention best of all their albums.
Everything after that albums sucked balls though.

Is your favorite Metallica album St Anger per chance?

South of Heaven is Slayer's finest work. It's got the ice cold atmosphere of Hell Awaits but with much better song writing and production. And they were still evil as fuck and pre basketball jerseys and sticker-bombed guitars.

 

[Bled & Dead]

Is your favorite Metallica album St Anger per chance?

Nope! Anything after ...and justice for all was crap. Including the Black album.
Ride the lighting is my fave by them but even that album doesnt get played more then maybe once or twice a year.

 

[KafkaX]

Their best two albums are Hell Awaits and Reign in Blood.

FYP. =P

 

[Mort Divine]

I'd actually say that Sabbat's History of a Time to Come is better than any Slayer album, but that is only meant to speak of how damn good that album is and not anything to do with Slayer's album quality.

 

[Umodian]

^ I'd have to disagree, it's a great album but it lacks variation. It definitely beats everything from Seasons and up though.


...And it's all about South of Heaven, guysss.

 

[Doomguy]

Brave New World is a fantastic album. It's underrated because it wasn't released in the 80s, but it seriously kicks ass. Definitely a few off moments on there, but I'd put it up there with anything else they've done.

About fucking time someone said it. Same goes with Dance of Death for me, though someone seriously needs to explain the album artwork.

Fear of the Dark is Iron Maiden´s best album

Facing the Animal is Yngwie Malmsteen´s best album

Blizzard Beasts is Immortal´s best

A Sceptics Universe by Spiral architect is a masterpiece

I disagree with you entirely and please allow me to go enormous lengths as to why.

1. Do you really rate it above Powerslave? That's the best in my opinion, Bruce's vocals are just ass-walloping and Rime of the Ancient Mariner is just beautiful.

2. Going to a Yngwie Malmsteen concert is like watching the special kid at school in the talent show. He looks and sounds absolutely terrible, but you really don't want to take him off stage because he seems to be having a great time.

3. Buh-buh. Battles in the North followed very, very closely by Diabolical Fullmoon Mysticism.

4. I don't rate it, then again I'm notoriously ambivalent towards prog metal so it might just be me.

Ozzy Osbourne's vocals on the early Black Sabbath material are perfect for the sound.

This is controversial? Surely I can't be the only one who almost vacated his bowels after hearing Ozzy's wailing vocals at the start of The Warning.

 

[EffigyForgotten]

Nope! Anything after ...and justice for all was crap. Including the Black album.
Ride the lighting is my fave by them but even that album doesnt get played more then maybe once or twice a year.

Hmm where have I heard this before?

I showed a black kid who listened to rap the song hell awaits and he was headbanging like crazy

Powerslave is definitely the best IM album.

 

[Dak]

Um, no. Obituary is the epitome of boring death metal.

Pretty much.

Everything post-Seventh Son is brimming over with wrongability.

Brave New World is a fantastic album. It's underrated because it wasn't released in the 80s, but it seriously kicks ass. Definitely a few off moments on there, but I'd put it up there with anything else they've done. I also think the debut is overlooked.

Controversial opinion: The Number of the Beast is overrated. Not a bad album, but I wouldn't even put it in their top 5. It gets all the attention because of the name and the artwork.

Brave New World is probably Maiden's most complete album. Not to say some other older albums don't have better individual songs, but the filler in almost every album can be pretty bad. The "filler" in BNW is almost good enough to not be called filler.

I don't know where Dak got the idea I praise Warrel Dane. I'm indifferent to him.

I do think he's a faggot for thinking Halford and Tardy are bad though

Yeah I think I was bashing Tardy and Dane in the same posts before and you took offense to my Tardy bashing and started defending Dane on principle

 

[King Richard]

Do you guys really care about appearance of a band and the individual members during live sets? It seems like we should believe that it doesn't matter, but honestly, it matters a lot to me.

Like WAIF mentioned, if a metal band comes out wearing sports jerseys and shredding on guitars with stupid fucking stickers all over them or stuff like that I get angry man. When I saw Dream Theater for the first time Portnoy was wearing a Knicks jersey and basketball shorts and that stupid fucking hat he always wears and I found myself fixated on that for the entire show thinking to myself, "This is a metal show right? Like, I didn't stumble in here on accident. Why the fuck wouldn't he care about presenting himself in a manner that would best represent himself and the band?"

I'm all about being comfortable playing drums, trust me. But I paid to see a show, not to see some old guys jamming out in a big ass room. And by show I mean the entire package: visual, sound, atmosphere, the whole nine.

I think far too many bands have lost the ability to put on a good show outside of just playing great compared to the album. Believe it or not, I've been to quite a few metal shows and I don't recall anything amazing or interesting from any of them except my first Slayer show, but that was only because Lombardo threw a stick at my face and I still have it. The best show I've ever been to by a mile is Porcupine Tree, followed by Rush, and then In Flames. This is one of the reasons I don't enjoy live shows anymore, it's boring and I can get better overall experience by sacrificing the scared plant to the fire gods in my room while listening to the album with my badass headphones.

 

[SentinelSlain]

They should all get sex changes and extensive cosmetic surgery until they look like Tara Reid.

 

[waif]

Brave New World is probably Maiden's most complete album. Not to say some other older albums don't have better individual songs, but the filler in almost every album can be pretty bad. The "filler" in BNW is almost good enough to not be called filler.

I'd agree about that. The only stuff on there I'd really consider filler would be The Mercenary, which isn't bad at all, and The Nomad's bridge, which is just unnecessarily long and sort of ruins an otherwise cool song.

Do you guys really care about appearance of a band and the individual members during live sets? It seems like we should believe that it doesn't matter, but honestly, it matters a lot to me.

Like WAIF mentioned, if a metal band comes out wearing sports jerseys and shredding on guitars with stupid fucking stickers all over them or stuff like that I get angry man. When I saw Dream Theater for the first time Portnoy was wearing a Knicks jersey and basketball shorts and that stupid fucking hat he always wears and I found myself fixated on that for the entire show thinking to myself, "This is a metal show right? Like, I didn't stumble in here on accident. Why the fuck wouldn't he care about presenting himself in a manner that would best represent himself and the band?"

I'm all about being comfortable playing drums, trust me. But I paid to see a show, not to see some old guys jamming out in a big ass room. And by show I mean the entire package: visual, sound, atmosphere, the whole nine.

I think far too many bands have lost the ability to put on a good show outside of just playing great compared to the album. Believe it or not, I've been to quite a few metal shows and I don't recall anything amazing or interesting from any of them except my first Slayer show, but that was only because Lombardo threw a stick at my face and I still have it. The best show I've ever been to by a mile is Porcupine Tree, followed by Rush, and then In Flames. This is one of the reasons I don't enjoy live shows anymore, it's boring and I can get better overall experience by sacrificing the scared plant to the fire gods in my room while listening to the album with my badass headphones.

You're misquoting me there. I'm also surprised you mentioned In Flames as putting on a good show, even though I'm a bigger fan of the band than almost anyone on here I found their live show fucking terrible, but that was probably a different tour.

I agree, though. Let's be honest - visual aesthetics are important. Many bands attempt to present an otherworldly or demonic image through their artwork and music - one effect of harsh vocals is to make the voice sound inhuman. When you're presenting music like that in a live setting, it really helps to go the extra mile and throw on some leather and studs or whatever. Bands like Watain and Behemoth present a visual aesthetic in line with their music live, and it enhances the show. Alternatively, when a band presents a visual aesthetic that is outright contrary to their music, such as the stupid jerseys, it detracts from it.

Metal bands should at the very least wear bands shirts and do their best to look like they might stab you.

 

[TheInsane]

Funny how Watain is given as an example of a great show. Granted Im not a big fan of their music but I saw them supporting Celtic Frist and Kreator a few years ago. In that setting their show almost turned comical. There was some fire and lots of blood but in a smallish venue the feeling just wasnt there. Then they threw out raw meat on the audience but people just stepped away and looked at the meat on the floor. They tried really hard but failed miserably.

I think that imagery does matter but I also have to consider what band plays and what their personlities are. I cant see Dream Theater put on a huge show because thats not the kind of band that they are. Having Portnoy be on stage in a sports team jersey doesnt matter to just like I dont care that Kerry King often uses his LA Kings shirt. If a black metal band did the same maybe it would be strange. However if the concerts good its nothing that would ruin the live experience. Not for me anyway.

 

[Dak]

I'd agree about that. The only stuff on there I'd really consider filler would be The Mercenary, which isn't bad at all, and The Nomad's bridge, which is just unnecessarily long and sort of ruins an otherwise cool song.

Yeah the tune for Nomad is pretty good, but it does drag out, and Dickinson delivers a less than stellar vocal arrangement to match at some points in the song, although the lyrics are pretty good.

As far as live performance goes, I find the over the top visuals detracting, and ridiculous "metal" getup nearly as offputting as basketball jerseys. Iron Maiden put on a really good show I went to see in '06 and even though they had a huge set with pyrotechnics and what not, it didn't detract like some nearly comical bullshit like Behemoth or GWAR. I still prefer a more "blue collar" approach to visuals and a focus on the actual music/musicianship.

 

[waif]

Funny how Watain is given as an example of a great show. Granted Im not a big fan of their music but I saw them supporting Celtic Frist and Kreator a few years ago. In that setting their show almost turned comical. There was some fire and lots of blood but in a smallish venue the feeling just wasnt there. Then they threw out raw meat on the audience but people just stepped away and looked at the meat on the floor. They tried really hard but failed miserably.

I think that imagery does matter but I also have to consider what band plays and what their personlities are. I cant see Dream Theater put on a huge show because thats not the kind of band that they are. Having Portnoy be on stage in a sports team jersey doesnt matter to just like I dont care that Kerry King often uses his LA Kings shirt. If a black metal band did the same maybe it would be strange. However if the concerts good its nothing that would ruin the live experience. Not for me anyway.

I'm not commenting on Watain's actual quality live, just using them as an example of a band that goes all out with their getup.

And it depends on the band. For example, Slayer have sucked for quite a while now so it doesn't matter what they wear. I think the best example would be Amon Amarth. They don't go all out, but they wear black (or go shirtless), they have long hair and beards, and that's about it. They don't try to come across as true vikings or whatever. And it's enough.

Yeah the tune for Nomad is pretty good, but it does drag out, and Dickinson delivers a less than stellar vocal arrangement to match at some points in the song, although the lyrics are pretty good.

As far as live performance goes, I find the over the top visuals detracting, and ridiculous "metal" getup nearly as offputting as basketball jerseys. Iron Maiden put on a really good show I went to see in '06 and even though they had a huge set with pyrotechnics and what not, it didn't detract like some nearly comical bullshit like Behemoth or GWAR. I still prefer a more "blue collar" approach to visuals and a focus on the actual music/musicianship.

Parts of the Nomad (and Hallowed Be Thy Name) are actually stolen from Beckett. Fun fact.

Anyhow, the visual aesthetic should fit the music. Maiden's 80s output is energetic and over-the-top, and their live show matches it. Behemoth play a very theatrical, aggressive form of death metal and their live show matches it. A band like Warbringer plays retro thrash, and their live show matches it by sucking. I don't think Sabbath were ever enhanced by their various attempts to add theatrics to the live set, but I don't think Maiden would work if they were just six guys in jeans and t-shirts standing on an unadorned stage.

 

[Dak]

Yeah, given that I primarily listen to death or thrash, my preference for stripped visuals fits.

 

[Doomguy]

Saw Watain earlier this year at a festival and we had goat's blood thrown over us. It was kvlt as fuck.

 

[EffigyForgotten]

Didn't Judas Priest start the whole "wear gay shit at concerts thing?"

 

[TheInsane]

Didn't Judas Priest start the whole "wear gay shit at concerts thing?"

Rob Halford is often credited as the originator of the look that included what was, at the time, worn at certain gay clubs and gatherings.

In a wider sense though to dress up and act out a certain gimmick, story, charachter, mythology etc on stage has probably been present for as long as we have used stage performances.