Controversial opinions on metal

[TechnicalBarbarity]

If they are not mid-paced thrash what is? What is a band that has a majority of songs slower than Megadeth and they're still considered thrash? I would be hard pressed to come up with one

Are you serious? Maybe you havent listened to enough thrash but just to float a few names out there ... Metallica, Testament, Exodus, Overkill, Heathen, Artillery, Metal Church, Annihilator, Voivod, and shit load of technical thrash bands. And just to make sure we're on the same page, im only talking about the first four Megadeth albums ... because like i said before, i agree with you on them currently being called a "mid-paced" thrash band. Youthanasia and Countdown are mid-paced, not their previous albums. Also, thrash metal doesn't always have to be fast, speed(which plenty of their earlier work has)is not the only thing that defines thrash metal. But just to let some of you guys know, Dave even prided himself on being one of the fastest bands of his time ... he's stated it numerous times in interviews, magazines and documentaries. And as far as "thrashy" goes, no one and i mean absolutely no one did it better they did early on.

Next think i know you guys will say that Kill Em All isn't thrashy or fast. Now ask yourself, is that album faster or thrashier than KIMB? Not even fucking close.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I think it's not fair to compare them to new school thrash bands though like BBB

He was referring to the album, which is one of the most overrated albums in the thrash metal community if you ask me. I don't even consider BBB anywhere near being good tbh. Exodus have always been a pretty shitty band.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The main riff of Tornado of Souls sounds more punk rock to me. Overall it doesn't have as much to do with tempo as it does riffing style. Show me the thrash riffs in the songs I named above.

And Strike of the Beast is thrashier than anything Metallica or Megadeth/Mustaine were doing in early/mid 1983. To deny that is to fail.

 

[ProphetofHatred]

Okay quick question, who gives a flying fuck if it's pure thrash or not? If the music is fucking good why the fuck does it matter?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

TheNightsBane, clearly. I love classic Megadeth including many of the songs I named above, but anyone that honestly believes that Dave Mustaine was the god of thrash metal and quintessence of all that was extreme in thrash needs to get over it.

 

[Onder]

I have to agree with HamburgerBoy on most points. If thrash metal is supposed to be fast and agressive than Megadeth is the least thrashy of pretty much all the major thrash bands. Not that I care much about Megadeth in the first place.

EDIT: Talking about the earliest material..

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It doesn't even have much to do with speed. Poison Was the Cure is among their fastest songs, but it's basically like a sped-up Back in the Village. Devil's Island is fast, but it's mostly gallop gallop gallop outside of the bridge. Then on the other hand there are plenty of mid-tempo/slower songs (see Exodus' No Love and Slayer's South of Heaven for two easy ones) that are undoubtedly thrash regardless of tempo.

 

[Baroque]

I wouldn't say early Metallica is slower paced than early Megadeth. Look at Dyer's Eve, Battery, Fight Fire with Fire, Whiplash, to name one from each of their first 4.

Testament? The New Order. Since when is Overkill slow? Metal Church I don't consider thrash.

I mean yeah it's not all about speed or some black metal bands would be the thrashiest of all. Still some speed is important.

BBB the album is thrashy. BBB the band is great live. To be honest I can't listen to their albums though.

Maybe this is a good chance to define what is meant by thrashy. It's hard to define but something that makes me want to get up and mosh. I'd say: It's that insistent repetitive snare and double bass drumming (the beat is very important). Choppy fast moving guitar riffs with some palm muting thrown in. Punk-like vocals with lyrics about war and rebellion and evil and shit. Good example from the 80's would be Vio-Lence - Eternal Nightmare for full on thrash.

 

[Baroque]

The main riff of Tornado of Souls sounds more punk rock to me. Overall it doesn't have as much to do with tempo as it does riffing style. Show me the thrash riffs in the songs I named above.

I would consider the riff from 0:20 to 0:45 a thrash riff. The drumming is thrashish too. The riff comes back a few times in the song, making it a thrash song imo. A real thrash drum beat shows up only for a moment at 4:40 but it's still there. I'm not sure what else you'd call the song, but definitely not punk. Punk doesn't have guitar solos like that for one.

 

[matt schrauben]

Megadeth sounds pretty damn thrashy to me.

 

[0Marty]

I always get this hard rock feeling when listening to Megadeth, something like hard rock meets hardcore punk. And I don't mean later albums, I mean first 4.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I wouldn't say early Metallica is slower paced than early Megadeth. Look at Dyer's Eve, Battery, Fight Fire with Fire, Whiplash, to name one from each of their first 4.

A song or two from each album doesnt change the fact that early Metallica was not as fast or as speedy as Megadeth, and honestly that cant even be argued.

Testament? The New Order.

Indeed, you could have included The Gathering ** I meant The Legacy, i always mix those two up ** also, but cmon now man, they are basically considered to be the kings of mid-paced thrash, no other albums define that sound better than PWYP, TNO, SoB and The Ritual.

Since when is Overkill slow?

I never said they're slow, none of the bands mentioned on this topic are. But yes are definitely a mid-paced thrash metal band, and none of their albums are as fast and aggressive as KIMB. Most of their albums are littered with mid-paced tracks.

And yeah, i dont really know why i threw Metal Church in there, as i dont consider them to be a thrash band either ... but their first two are pretty heavy on thrash.

BBB the album is thrashy. BBB the band is great live. To be honest I can't listen to their albums though.

I cant stand the band, and i already mentioned how i feel about the album.

Good example from the 80's would be Vio-Lence - Eternal Nightmare for full on thrash.

One of my all time favorites right there.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

TheNightsBane, clearly.

Actually, i couldn't give less of a fuck about what's pure thrash and what isn't, as i probably listen to more different types of thrash metal than anyone else here .... but i just have to say something when i see people talking about early Megadeth not being fast or "light on thrash" ... which is fucking ridiculous. I've been listening to metal for almost 25 years now, and this was the first time i heard anyone use those terms when describing their earlier work.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

So how is my assessment on songs like Poison Was the Cure or Devil's Island wrong? If you're going to call those thrash, you could call a lot of trad/speed and USPM songs thrash.

 

[Baroque]

Part of the problem with this argument is that we started with talking about Megadeth's entire discography (which I think we can all agree overall they now have more mid-paced songs than pure thrash songs).

Then we went to talking about the first 4 albums. Yes there is a greater concentration of thrash songs on those than on their later albums, I think we can all agree on that as well.

Then we went to nitpicking individual songs. At this point I'm willing to admit that Megadeth was one of the fastest thrash bands of the early 80s on some songs, if you're willing to admit they were also one of the slower thrash bands of the early 80's on some songs.

If anything we're just saying they have a wide variety of speeds, which I think is true. They're not consistenly fast thrash or consistenly mid-paced thrash on the first 4. This is unlike some other bands which have/had consistently fast thrash songs.

If this is still not agreeable, well then the only way to settle this is break out a metronome. Lol.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

As I've said before, tempo is kind of irrelevant. If every song of theirs was slow, that alone wouldn't say anything about whether or not they were thrash songs.

This song is pretty mid-tempo and even hooky/accessible, but it still has all the open-string palm muted thrash chugging one would expect from thrash



The Megadeth songs I mentioned above (which constitute almost 40% of the music on their first four albums) by and large lack that. And I didn't even get into borderline cases like the Killing is My Business title track, Looking Down the Cross, My Last Words, Into the Lungs of Hell, etc, which are still very trad and/or speed metal influenced.

 

[J.]

i like youthanasia. not thrash at all

 

[Mort Divine]

Sabbat's History of a Time to Come shits on anything Megadeth has ever done anyways so why are we even discussing if Megadeth is thrash or not...

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The more I listen to that album the more I realize how Sabbat would be nothing without Walkyier. Almost no memorable riffs.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

we're discussing it because a couple of pages back i said that megadeth is not a thrash band. because they're not.