Controversial opinions on metal

[Omni]

You have repeatedly tried to state that the music of extreme metal bands is unrelated to, and an invalid interpretation of, originating metal bands while using the vacuous defense that Ozzy Osbourne doesn't like it as evidence that it can't be a proper interpretation. That goes far beyond stating that you don't like it and defending the fact that you don't like it.

There is no right or wrong way to be musically influenced by something. There are no criteria that bands must meet in order to be influenced by something. The artists that they are influenced by do not have to like their music.

 

[GuiltySpawn]

I'm curious Omni, what's your take on deathcore? Are you part of the metal bandwagon that dislikes it? I'll explain in a second the relevance of the question.

 

[Omni]

I don't like it, but that is wholly irrelevant to the discussion because I don't spend my time talking about how it is an invalid interpetation of music that I like because I don't think that's the case. The fact that I don't like deathcore has no place in this discussion and is an obvious attempt to redirect the conversation.

I'm personally uninterested in metalcore and deathcore because I don't find them musically satisfying. That's where it begins and ends for me.

 

[GuiltySpawn]

You don't think deathcore is an invalid interpretation of death metal? The reason I ask, is because I've met many DM fans who will vehemently argue that point. And you know what? I actually agree with them. I hate "core" far more than extreme metal, and I think there are very valid, reasonable ways to make that point.

I don't see why it's wrong to provide reasons for why you dislike something. Again, I want to know which of my 2 reasons you find to be invalid. You claim that my reasons are invalid, but the problem is, my reasons are based on factual aspects of the music, and so it's very difficult for you or anyone else to rationally object to it.

 

[suckerleaf]

If you listen a band like Eyehategod and not here Sabbath's influence or say At the Gates and not hear how Maiden played a part in their sound then I'll dare say you are the one that's clueless.

 

[RedStorm]

You can find many influences in extreme music from their older counterparts, whether intentional or not. Ive said some stupid shit but that is straight up denial of the truth. If you dont want them to give you a hard time, dont be a retard...

 

[GuiltySpawn]

Alright, fine. Personally I would not have used their approach, and to my ears, I would say there are perceivable flaws in their interpretation. That's my opinion. Why is this problematic? Look, I'm willing to be respectful enough to say that I simply disagree with that point of view. Are you willing to accept that?

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

It's quite disgraceful for someone to claim to be a Black Sabbath fan, or claim to be inspired by Sabbath, and yet produce something that has NOTHING at all to do with their music. Ozzy Osbourne himself says, "People come up to me and say, 'Your Sabbath work was a big influence on me.' I could go, 'Oh, yeah, I can see that,' but other bands… what part of that is inspired by us? Some of it is just angry people screaming down a microphone!" This excerpt is a pretty clear illustration of my point.

Dave Chandler has said the same exact thing about not getting it when certain bands telling him how big an influence Saint Vitus have been on them. Just because someone doesn't hear the influence doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

[Omni]

@GuiltySpawn

I have beyond thoroughly explained the parts of your argument that don't really make sense. I don't know what else you're asking me to explain.

 

[Mort Divine]

The issue with claiming there is a flaw in extreme metal bands interpretation of their forefathers is that it ignores that it didn't simply go from Black Sabbath to Wormed. You're willfully ignoring a lot of what was in between.

You're ignoring Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Venom, Discharge, Black Flag, etc. all bands contributed to the groundwork that thrash and by extension death and black metal would build from.

 

[GuiltySpawn]

@GuiltySpawn

I have beyond thoroughly explained the parts of your argument that don't really make sense. I don't know what else you're asking me to explain.

Are you at least willing to accept that it's reasonable for a person to dislike extreme metal on the grounds that the vocals lack the melody of traditional vocals? It sounds like this is a problem for you, like you feel that I'm irrational for desiring clean vocals in my metal. You say that clean vocals wouldn't go well with extreme metal, but I personally think they would. Is this unreasonable? Is this "gay"?

The issue with claiming there is a flaw in extreme metal bands interpretation of their forefathers is that it ignores that it didn't simply go from Black Sabbath to Wormed. You're willfully ignoring a lot of what was in between.

You're ignoring Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Venom, Discharge, Black Flag, etc. all bands contributed to the groundwork that thrash and by extension death and black metal would build from.

True, but in my opinion I feel that metal did not properly evolve in the direction I would have liked it to see it go. If I had the opportunity, I'd go back in time and alter a few things in the course of metal evolution in a way to my liking.

I appreciate the dialogue. Again, my intent is not to stir up controversy but to try to discuss the issues productively. In music, I have found throughout most of my life, that my taste and opinions have never been considered acceptable by the masses, and so I'm used to the opposition. While everyone else around me was into modern pop/rock, rap, or hip hop, I was listening to metal. Within the metal audience of my day, my views were considered dated and unpopular, and I've always had a feeling I was in the wrong time and place.

 

[Baroque]

Are you at least willing to accept that it's reasonable for a person to dislike extreme metal on the grounds that the vocals lack the melody of traditional vocals? It sounds like this is a problem for you, like you feel that I'm irrational for desiring clean vocals in my metal. You say that clean vocals wouldn't go well with extreme metal, but I personally think they would. Is this unreasonable? Is this "gay"?

If you don't like extreme metal, don't listen to it. Done.

Your constant need for approval/acceptance is the only thing "gay" about this.

No one cares if you don't like extreme metal, just stop repeating yourself about it. We will continue to enjoy it without you, however.

 

[Omni]

@GuiltySpawn

I never once said it wasn't okay for you to like extreme metal vocals because they're less melodic than traditional singing. If I felt that way, I would have stated it outright.

A lot of your justifications for opinions were just vacuous redirections that just didn't make sense and weren't really relevant. That's what I found problematic.

 

[RedStorm]

Opinion:
I find symphonic black metal boring as fuck and samey

 

[Slayed Necros]

Most of it sucks. There's a few gems to be found though.

 

[RedStorm]

i would be cool with some recommendations for good shit

 

[Phylactery]

Obtained Enslavement - Witchcraft

 

[Slayed Necros]

Yeah. That's what I was going to recommend. Seems like we have near identical taste!

 

[RedStorm]

decent so far, not bad actually, better then most of pseudo black metal shit i see all the time

 

[Omni]

Night Conquers Day's Rebellion Is the Art of Survival is a good example of black metal with some symphonic influences that aren't overbearing.