Controversial opinions on metal

[HamburgerBoy]

That's perfectly fine. Some people adore Loveless as well, almost purely due to its sound/production. I'm just saying that more black metal fans should man up and admit that's why they like their music, instead of pretending there's anything particularly creative (in a metal context) about it beyond a handful of artists.

 

[CiG]

"Creative" is defined differently person to person.

 

[Omni]

That's perfectly fine. Some people adore Loveless as well, almost purely due to its sound/production. I'm just saying that more black metal fans should man up and admit that's why they like their music, instead of pretending there's anything particularly creative (in a metal context) about it beyond a handful of artists.

Again I wonder if black metal beat you up, took your lunch money and shoved you into a locker during your youth.

Black metal also has massive variance in production that only the most casual listener would be unaware of, even among albums that are considered universal classics.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I never said there was no variance in production. I said that people love black metal largely because of its production; some are into the raw early 80s thing, some are into the wall-of-sound DSO type thing, some are into hyper-homosexual keyboards-galore symphoblack stuff. In Yoda's above post, he literally says that the Hellhammer demos are good BECAUSE OF the production, ergo it is a necessary component of making those demos good, meaning without their production those demos would not be good. From most other hardcore fans of a given sub-genre, you find different comments, like "Good in spite of the production" or "Good music helped by fitting production" or etc. In black metal, production and image are nearly inseparable from music.

 

[CiG]

Pretty much all underground styles of metal have a large focus on image and production.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Just because there can be a common image or production in certain styles doesn't mean it's seen as a requirement. Who do you think bitches about "Sneap sound" or "cookie-cutter thrash" more: thrash fans, or in-crowd/black metal fans? Thrash fans can acknowledge poor/stale production, but not as often will you find people dismissing music primarily because of production. Same thing for death metal (unless it's an in-crowd caverncore type deal) and power metal.

 

[CiG]

It's a requirement for me and I'm hardly a black metal hipster. I listen to black metal the least of all the metal styles.

 

[no country for old wainds]

i'm personally more likely to criticise death or thrash for glossy production values than BM, and i think i'm probably in the majority on this board. i actually think production may be less of a factor in BM than pretty much any other sub-genre i can think of, to me anyway. there are definitely more tr00bie cunts in BM than any other genre across the internet but i don't see those people here and idk why you choose this board to constantly complain about it

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't know exactly what you love. Do you consider The Chasm to be an all-time favorite band? Or Ares Kingdom? Or Stargazer? If so you're probably still an in-crowd metal fan, which is just a special kind of hipster.

EDIT: That was irt Cassette.

 

[no country for old wainds]

...is this gonna be another one of those situations where you get called out for your endless, baseless presumptions and generalisations and then back down and go back to talking about your latest puberty problems?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Show me where I've ever backed down in an autistic internet argument.

 

[Mort Divine]

The Chasm and Ares Kingdom are two of my favorites, I'd be laughed out of the 'in crowd' of metal. What now?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Your post above only really proved my point btw. Black metal is already heavily conscious of aesthetic, so even for bands that have a kind of sound you don't like, it can be acknowledged as a conscious artistic choice. Thrash and death metal bands get shit on for not spending more time on selecting recording equipment and distortion pedals rather than writing decent riffs.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The Chasm and Ares Kingdom are two of my favorites, I'd be laughed out of the 'in crowd' of metal. What now?

The concept of in-crowd metal is literally something I discovered on this forum, and you are one of my model specimens. In-crowd metal people are allowed to enjoy non-metal or certain non-in-crowd metal bands (Pain of Salvation doesn't disqualify you; a lot of arg-metal would, however).

 

[Mort Divine]

also who the hell are you to talk about in crowd bullshit with your worship of stuff like Slauter Xstroyes and Adramelch

 

[CiG]

I don't know exactly what you love. Do you consider The Chasm to be an all-time favorite band? Or Ares Kingdom? Or Stargazer? If so you're probably still an in-crowd metal fan, which is just a special kind of hipster.

EDIT: That was irt Cassette.

I don't own albums by any of those bands yet.

i'm personally more likely to criticise death or thrash for glossy production values than BM, and i think i'm probably in the majority on this board. i actually think production may be less of a factor in BM than pretty much any other sub-genre i can think of, to me anyway. there are definitely more tr00bie cunts in BM than any other genre across the internet but i don't see those people here and idk why you choose this board to constantly complain about it

Would you say that's because death metal and thrash metal as genres attract people with more varied goals production-wise compared with black metal, which you can always just assume with have a much more raw production?

I could agree with that, if so.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I love plenty of in-crowd metal, it's not necessarily a bad thing, it's more about how it's suspect that these taste-defining pioneers happen to adore all the same bands from all kinds of styles with almost no exceptions allowed. A person can love both Sabbats, Master's Hammer, Arch-era Fates Warning, and Varathron, but they're still fags if they hate Cirith Ungol. That's how it works.

I don't agree that Slauter Xstroyes exactly counts though. They aren't as A E S T H E T I C and are more cult favorites in USPM and prog metal circles, not broad in-crowd metal circles that sample all genres. Off the top of my head I don't know anyone here other than myself that would consider either album an all-time favorite, except maybe old wainds (and I'm guessing there).

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Would you say that's because death metal and thrash metal as genres attract people with more varied goals production-wise compared with black metal, which you can always just assume with have a much more raw production?

I could agree with that, if so.

How could you agree with that? You're arguing that black metal has less varied production than thrash?

 

[CiG]

How could you agree with that? You're arguing that black metal has less varied production than thrash?

I'd say the vast majority of black metal musicians have a similar goal with production. Raw, old school, dirty, demo-quality, harsh etc.

Thrash metal musicians can't really be generalised in the same way, even if production is less important to those within the genre as a whole.

 

[no country for old wainds]

idk i think there are a lot of strains of BM that try to be more beautiful, dreamy, earthy etc. there are plenty of full-bodied, maybe even warm BM productions that get some love around here.

re: mort, it only applies in cases where he doesn't agree obviously, because he has some objective sense of which music has legitimate appeal and which doesn't. basically it's just "you don't share my opinion so you have ulterior motives for said opinion" but taken to some whole new insane autistic level.

i'd like to see your explanations for my love of dark moor/fairyland? or LOAD? or some opeth? or harvey milk (who i like more than black sabbath)? etc. all of these are outright rejected by most old schoolers in my experience. i'm also not at all into two of the bands you just mentioned as being in-crowdy, and i've got plenty of shit in the past for not buying into canonised stuff. but i guess none of this matters because i like the chasm (who were, by the way, insanely fucking creative and imaginative in their middle period) so obviously i'm one of *them*!

btw if i tried to read HAMLET in fluorescent epileptic comic sans i'd probably hate reading that too. maybe that's a dubious analogy, but music sounding good is about more than just creativity/riffs.

(and yea if you hate cirith ungol you are probably a fag)