Controversial opinions on metal

[The Ozzman]

I haven't for 10 years

 

[CiG]

Ozzman, the guy that expects everyone to preface their opinions with "in my opinion."

Fight me.

 

[Draehl]

Ranking of each genre's overall metalness in order from most to least:

Trad metal
Power metal
Thrash metal = death metal
Doom metal
Groove metal
Non-prefixed black metal
Prog metal
Metalcore
Alternative metal = nu metal
Goth metal = folk metal
Prefixed black metal

Hey now, watch it with the prefixed black metal there. You're definitely not wrong in some cases, but you're very wrong in others. Prefixed black metal is probably one of the broadest genres since BM mixes so well with so many other genres, in varying proportions, levels of heaviness, etc.

 

[The Ozzman]

Ozzman, the guy that expects everyone to preface their opinions with "in my opinion."

Yes, because that's completely what I said

 

[Omni]

Hey now, watch it with the prefixed black metal there. You're definitely not wrong in some cases, but you're very wrong in others. Prefixed black metal is probably one of the broadest genres since BM mixes so well with so many other genres, in varying proportions, levels of heaviness, etc.

A style of music tending to be combined with music that isn't metal definitely isn't a good example of music that is more metal than other types of metal.

 

[Baroque]

You're following metal forwards, what's the difference? We're talking about metal purity, if you think it's a bullshit concept that's fair enough but if you're trying to tell me that for example, technical death metal is more metal ("metalness") than NWOBHM that makes zero sense to me and the uneducated reactions of your students changes that very little.



I can only interpret this as a defect in your perception of heavy metal music, likely brought upon by a preference for metal that is heavily removed from it's roots.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that it's somewhat ironic to be called a follower because I personally take a preservationist stance when it comes to heavy metal even though as far as I can tell the metal masses overwhelmingly support evolution in metal. People like me are a minority, at least in my experience.

I'm not following anybody backwards or forwards, I'm just trying to pick a spot I like and stand still as much as I can.

To be clear I was not calling you a follower. I was calling bands that forever emulate trad metal bands of the past followers.

 

[The Butt]

No fucking way Metalcore bands are more metal than Type O Negative. Wrong.

He's wrong about most things, so just disregard him.

 

[Draehl]

A style of music tending to be combined with music that isn't metal definitely isn't a good example of music that is more metal than other types of metal.

Non-metal styles and metal styles though. Tell me Moonsorrow or Drudkh isn't heavier than a lot of heavy metal or prog, despite the atmospheric and folk influences. Lets not bring up black/death hybrids that are often superior to straight BM or DM in heaviness as well as creativity and mood.

 

[Phylactery]

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here, but Hamburgerboy's list was based purely on the "metalness" of each genre. How can something that is mixed with genres outside of metal be more metal than something that is purely metal?

Also black metal isn't a genre I typically associate with heaviness, there are some examples where it can be heavy of course, but I don't think Drudkh or Moonsorrow are it.

 

[Draehl]

Fair enough I suppose you can make the case that being "metal" vs being heavy vs. whatever adjective you like is a different comparison.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

My list wasn't supposed to indicate heaviness; most death metal is obviously heavier than most trad metal.

No fucking way Metalcore bands are more metal than Type O Negative. Wrong.

I generally try to avoid listening to Type O Negative so maybe they're an exception. I was thinking more along the lines of the typical late 90s/2000s Century Media-signed death-metal-gone-goth band, like Tiamat or Anathema or someshit, which is basically The Sisters of Mercy worship with heavier distortion. Gothenburg-derived "metalcore" and early NYHC-derived metalcore are far more metal than that.

Hey now, watch it with the prefixed black metal there. You're definitely not wrong in some cases, but you're very wrong in others. Prefixed black metal is probably one of the broadest genres since BM mixes so well with so many other genres, in varying proportions, levels of heaviness, etc.

It mixes well only because a lot of prefixed black metal barely even contains metal riffs. The best explanation I've read is that black metal is often like a blank canvas that any kind of image can be projected onto.

 

[Draehl]

My list wasn't supposed to indicate heaviness; most death metal is obviously heavier than most trad metal.

Yeah, I think that was the initial misunderstanding. MB!

 

[Baroque]

I'm not sure "heaviness" and "metalness" are mutually exclusive. Heaviness is certainly a part of metal.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Not mutually exclusive, but certainly still individual terms. There is a lot of power metal that I would say isn't particularly heavy, but is still undoubtedly metal (e.g. the first two Keeper of the Seven Keys albums) in that it predominately uses metal riffs, metal themes, and lacks non-metal influences (aside from neoclassical stuff which doesn't even really count).

Likewise, there is a ton of super-heavy music without the slightest metal influence (see: a lot of industrial, "No Wave", plenty of classical, etc).

 

[EspaDa]

Early Swans material is heavy shit.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Nu metal is metal, it's just not very good metal.

Exactly.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Aside from the first two Korn albums, Mudvayne's MD50, maybe early Slipknot (need to listen to them properly), and some other stuff that is pretty gosh darn good metal.

 

[CiG]

Yes, because that's completely what I said

In my opinion you said exactly that. That's just my opinion.

 

[Omni]

Early Swans material is heavy shit.

Yeah, their early music is heavier than most metal.

 

[The Butt]

I'm not taking issue with the fact that HB's list is based on "metalness", I just find his ordering very suspect.