Controversial opinions on metal

[Phylactery]

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here, but Hamburgerboy's list was based purely on the "metalness" of each genre. How can something that is mixed with genres outside of metal be more metal than something that is purely metal?

Also black metal isn't a genre I typically associate with heaviness, there are some examples where it can be heavy of course, but I don't think Drudkh or Moonsorrow are it.

 

[Draehl]

Fair enough I suppose you can make the case that being "metal" vs being heavy vs. whatever adjective you like is a different comparison.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

My list wasn't supposed to indicate heaviness; most death metal is obviously heavier than most trad metal.

No fucking way Metalcore bands are more metal than Type O Negative. Wrong.

I generally try to avoid listening to Type O Negative so maybe they're an exception. I was thinking more along the lines of the typical late 90s/2000s Century Media-signed death-metal-gone-goth band, like Tiamat or Anathema or someshit, which is basically The Sisters of Mercy worship with heavier distortion. Gothenburg-derived "metalcore" and early NYHC-derived metalcore are far more metal than that.

Hey now, watch it with the prefixed black metal there. You're definitely not wrong in some cases, but you're very wrong in others. Prefixed black metal is probably one of the broadest genres since BM mixes so well with so many other genres, in varying proportions, levels of heaviness, etc.

It mixes well only because a lot of prefixed black metal barely even contains metal riffs. The best explanation I've read is that black metal is often like a blank canvas that any kind of image can be projected onto.

 

[Draehl]

My list wasn't supposed to indicate heaviness; most death metal is obviously heavier than most trad metal.

Yeah, I think that was the initial misunderstanding. MB!

 

[Baroque]

I'm not sure "heaviness" and "metalness" are mutually exclusive. Heaviness is certainly a part of metal.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Not mutually exclusive, but certainly still individual terms. There is a lot of power metal that I would say isn't particularly heavy, but is still undoubtedly metal (e.g. the first two Keeper of the Seven Keys albums) in that it predominately uses metal riffs, metal themes, and lacks non-metal influences (aside from neoclassical stuff which doesn't even really count).

Likewise, there is a ton of super-heavy music without the slightest metal influence (see: a lot of industrial, "No Wave", plenty of classical, etc).

 

[EspaDa]

Early Swans material is heavy shit.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Nu metal is metal, it's just not very good metal.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Nu metal is metal, it's just not very good metal.

Exactly.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Aside from the first two Korn albums, Mudvayne's MD50, maybe early Slipknot (need to listen to them properly), and some other stuff that is pretty gosh darn good metal.

 

[CiG]

Yes, because that's completely what I said

In my opinion you said exactly that. That's just my opinion.

 

[Omni]

Early Swans material is heavy shit.

Yeah, their early music is heavier than most metal.

 

[The Butt]

I'm not taking issue with the fact that HB's list is based on "metalness", I just find his ordering very suspect.

 

[CiG]

I would re-order it differently. Obviously black metal at the very bottom is more due to personal spite than anything logical.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Only prefixed black metal. I put actual black metal over even prog metal, and I consider myself a fan of prog metal.

 

[The Butt]

You're saying folk/black is less metal than metalcore or nu metal, which is wrong.

 

[CiG]

Yeah how did you even reach that conclusion, considering metalcore is a form of hardcore music, not metal. Is it because it has the word "metal" in it or something?

Edit:

Only prefixed black metal. I put actual black metal over even prog metal, and I consider myself a fan of prog metal.

My bad. I misread your original post. Prefixed as in second wave styled black metal, right?

 

[The Butt]

Yeah how did you even reach that conclusion, considering metalcore is a form of hardcore music, not metal. Is it because it has the word "metal" in it or something?

No it's because folk/black has black in it, ldo.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah how did you even reach that conclusion, considering metalcore is a form of hardcore music, not metal. Is it because it has the word "metal" in it or something?

Metalcore is not only a form of hardcore music.



That song above is full of metal riffs. More metal riffs than what a lot of nowadays black metal plays.

 

[CiG]

So I think you should separate metalcore into prefixed and non-prefixed in that case.