Controversial opinions on metal

[Satanstoenail]

Is there decent grindcore beyond Napalm Death and Terrorizer?

The first Brutal Truth album fucking rules

 

[CiG]

This is true. But it must be said that it's still likely to make you want to pull out your own anal tract and then eat it (but in a good way). Only a metal head would describe that and then add "in a good way" at the end. Anyways, better production but still putrid stuff.

I think production like all the other instruments works differently for different artists. Do I want a Carcass record with a production style similar to that of an Iron Maiden record? Probably not. Same vice versa.

 

[Burzum_Maiden]

I think production like all the other instruments works differently for different artists. Do I want a Carcass record with a production style similar to that of an Iron Maiden record? Probably not. Same vice versa.

I agree. That wouldn't make any sense and would sound awful. Different artists most definitely do have different recording styles, but there are some aspects of production that remain objective e.g. the mixing of a record. In most cases certain instruments need to be higher in a mix than others, but if you can't hear a certain instrument over top of everything else, that aspect of the production is poorly done, regardless of genre. There's a lot of wiggle room, but some things are kind of set in stone.

 

[Jimboduggin]

The first Brutal Truth album fucking rules

https://recalcitrant.bandcamp.com check this out man!

 

[CiG]

Eh, I don't know if I agree with that. I'd need specific examples.

 

[Jimboduggin]

Recalcitrant, Bird Flesh, Rotten Sound, Nerve Grind, Human Obliteration, Plague Widow, Green Terror, Fetus Eaters, Maggot Colony, FIEND, Haggus, Redacted, Pig Destroyer, Noisear, Phobia,

 

[CiG]

Unseen Terror and Filthy Christians.

 

[CF87]

Ranking of each genre's overall metalness in order from most to least:

Trad metal
Power metal
Thrash metal = death metal
Doom metal
Groove metal
Non-prefixed black metal
Prog metal
Metalcore
Alternative metal = nu metal
Goth metal = folk metal
Prefixed black metal

Thrash metal is aggressive and extreme for the time. It's influencial on extreme metal in general. Is Imperial Doom the same as Show No Mercy or Where No Life Dwells the same as Kill 'em All ?. Possessed-seven churches is black metal,thrash, and death metal. Does that mean thrash,black,and death metal is the samething to.

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

I'm fine with that, I was trying to be non-confrontational because if I lumped all black metal together it would have come out much lower. If you want a more thorough breakdown...

Trad metal = trad/power metal = epic doom metal = trad doom metal = speed metal = trad/power metal that is progressive
Euro-power proper = first-wave black metal = Bay Area thrash = death/thrash = OSDM (and all tech variants thereof)
Groove metal = thrashy Gothernburg melodeath = overtly melodic Gothenburg melodeath = Gothenburg-derived metalcore = crossover thrash
Stoner doom = NYHC-derived metalcore
Second-wave Norwegian black metal proper
The average pre-Dream Theater prog metal
The average post-Dream Theater prog metal
Funeral doom, plus probably other shit I don't care about that I'm forgetting
Alternative metal = nu metal
Stoner rock = grunge = hard rock
Goth metal = folk metal = symphonic black metal
Metalcore that isn't remotely metal
Depressive suicidal black metal
Black ambient

You can't possibly peg folk metal into a single tier, let alone dump it all into a lower tier than genres that are overtly non-metal like grunge and hard rock. That umbrella includes bands that are rooted in everything from epic doom metal to atmospheric black metal. Stuff like Mael Mordha belongs much closer to the top of the list.

Hell, it's plenty silly lumping all gothic metal towards the bottom. If you're looking at, as you say, Sisters-of-Mercy-with-heavier-guitars type bands, sure, since post-Wildhoney Tiamat is as much gothic rock as gothic metal. But the early doom progenitors of the style, e.g. My Dying Bride, are at about the same level as stoner doom. Early Theatre of Tragedy is not too far behind, nor is anything that has a strong doom element.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Thrash metal is aggressive and extreme for the time. It's influencial on extreme metal in general. Is Imperial Doom the same as Show No Mercy or Where No Life Dwells the same as Kill 'em All ?. Possessed-seven churches is black metal,thrash, and death metal. Does that mean thrash,black,and death metal is the samething to.

I'm saying they're of equivalent levels of metalness, not that they're the exact same thing musically.

You can't possibly peg folk metal into a single tier, let alone dump it all into a lower tier than genres that are overtly non-metal like grunge and hard rock. That umbrella includes bands that are rooted in everything from epic doom metal to atmospheric black metal. Stuff like Mael Mordha belongs much closer to the top of the list.

Hell, it's plenty silly lumping all gothic metal towards the bottom. If you're looking at, as you say, Sisters-of-Mercy-with-heavier-guitars type bands, sure, since post-Wildhoney Tiamat is as much gothic rock as gothic metal. But the early doom progenitors of the style, e.g. My Dying Bride, are at about the same level as stoner doom. Early Theatre of Tragedy is not too far behind, nor is anything that has a strong doom element.

I've never heard of Mael Mordha tbh; listening to Winds of One Thousand Winters on YouTube I'd probably call this epic doom metal, so if this is representative of their sound then sure, they're plenty metallic. I'm thinking along the lines of the kind of folk metal that reaches the most people and tends to be more representative, e.g. Korpiklaani or Eluveitie or whatever. I don't really have enough interest in folk metal to split it into further categories, but I'll acknowledge that the ranking is a rough average of various sounds and doesn't represent every single band that could be called folk metal.

I'd probably just lump early My Dying Bride into doom or death metal. I would put Velvet Darkness They Fear very low on the metalness scale, unless you mean just the very first album which I haven't heard much of. Since those early sounds generally don't represent what the bands are known for, I don't put much value in how metal those are when regarding goth metal on the whole.

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

Velvet Darkness They Fear is not "very low" on the metalness scale, that's just your own bias talking. It retains death-doom influence in its sound, with a thick, heavy guitar tone, and the riffing may be pretty simple for the most part, but it's not just strumming out chord progressions either. There are keyboards present, and a lot of subdued sections interspersed throughout, but even metal in its purest form doesn't have to be balls out heavy from start to finish. ToT is not at all metal in its purest form, but it's way more metal than you think it is. That is, before they went electropop.

Just contrast this:


with this:


One is clearly metal while the other is more rock-oriented.

There is no band that represents the genre as a whole, like you can say that Candlemass epitomizes epic doom metal, but the fact that you mentioned Anathema shows that you are off base in your conception of it. Anathema hasn't been metal of any kind since Alternative 4, when they started playing alt rock, not goth rock - similar to The Gathering.

Plenty of more recent bands play gothic/doom metal, and that's generally what I go for, since they are not only heavier, but more "gothic" than a lot of the other stuff that passes for gothic metal nowadays.

 

[alex76]

Controversial Opinion:

Sadus' Elements of Anger dangerously competes with Chemical Exposure as being their best album (though I would still give it to Chemical Exposure), and is, at any rate, an underrated metal masterpiece.

 

[Omni]

The most important traditional doom albums of recent years were those put out by Revelation, Reverend Bizarre and Warning.

Griftegård was the first band to take prominent influence from modern classics in the genre (Warning and Reverend Bizarre) without blatantly copying them like bands such as Pallbearer. They're probably the next band to really have a major impact as time goes on.

I don't know if this is controversial or not, but I posted it here just in case.

 

[Krow]

On a personal level, The Gates of Slumber and Hour of 13 dwarf all of those except RevBiz.

Griftegard is nothing special to me at all. Warning comes off as too emotional for me to really want to listen to often though so maybe if that's a prime influence therein lies the problem.

 

[CiG]

For me, the most recent traditional doom metal albums that matter the most have been Atlantean Kodex (if they count, they're just as heavy metal as they are doom metal if not more), The Wizar'd, Revelation, While Heaven Wept, Lord Vicar to a lesser degree and of course Reverend Bizarre.

I'm yet to actually get around to hearing Procession.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

I pretty much agree with Omni. I like to refer to RevBiz and Warning as the birth of something like "modern traditional doom" but that sounds gay as fuck. Griftegard is definitely the best band of that style in recent memory, but stuff like Hour of 13 (which does not follow that modern trad doom sound) is awesome. Gates of Slumber are wonderful too but they belong in the other camp.

 

[CiG]

Are Reverend Bizarre strictly traditional though? I always pondered this.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

Reverend Bizarre are fucking Reverend Bizarre. They should get their own genre of "long as fuck but not boring or redundant doom metal"

 

[CiG]

Writing 25 minute songs via a fairly basic traditional doom metal structure is a pretty fucking good middle-finger to the masses. It's almost like a test of will.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

They Used Dark Forces/Teutonic Witch is, like, my favorite RevBiz song these days. I once got drunk and pretended to play along to the whole fucking thing on bass. It was fun.