Controversial opinions on metal

[Elric of Melniboné]

That description sounds like selective bullshit to me.

 

[rusty water]

That description sounds like selective bullshit to me.

It is a quote from online, if you google ` heavy metal meaning` it lists those quotes.

I am trying to find the place where heavy rock or hard rock ends and it becomes heavy metal.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I can find a lot of incorrect or very skewed information by using Google.

 

[rusty water]

I can find a lot of incorrect or very skewed information by using Google.

If you disagree with the google definition, may I ask what your own definition is??

I have asked before in the forum what anyones opinion is as to what the definition of heavy metal is, and no-one has given a definition. I gave my own definition previously and people disagreed, yet didnt provide a single definition of their own.

The second quote that I posted just there, is from an online dictionary. ( so not google )

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

It's a type of rock music defined by a heavier sound that can vary quite a bit. It certainly doesn't require a harsh sonic structure and shouted or screamed vocals make up a minority of the vocalizations of traditional heavy metal forms.

Despite your earlier attempts to claim something to the contrary, Black Sabbath were one of the first bands to be labeled as heavy metal, as early as 1971. They don't sound like the description that you gave. Neither do the early albums of Judas Priest, which are undeniably heavy metal. Similarly, a lot of other early heavy metal bands don't really match that description.

 

[Krow]

How the hell can loud describe a genre of music?

 

[rusty water]

It's a type of rock music defined by a heavier sound that can vary quite a bit. It certainly doesn't require a harsh sonic structure and shouted or screamed vocals make up a minority of the vocalizations of traditional heavy metal forms.

Despite your earlier attempts to claim something to the contrary, Black Sabbath were one of the first bands to be labeled as heavy metal, as early as 1971. They don't sound like the description that you gave. Neither do the early albums of Judas Priest, which are undeniably heavy metal. Similarly, a lot of other early heavy metal bands don't really match that description.

When Sabbath were being discussed, I made the statement that `in my opinion Sabbath arent heavy metal`. Understand there, that I said `in my opinion`, if someone labelled them `heavy metal` at any time, that isnt my opinion. What I am trying to do is see if a place can be found where a band stops being heavy rock and becomes heavy metal. When you said Sabbath dont sound like the descition I gave, that was the online description, not mine. And in my opinion, Sabbath arent heavy metal, whereas Judas Priest most definately are.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

You stated that Black Sabbath was not called heavy metal until the 1980s and that the term "heavy metal" wasn't used as a music descriptor until Geoff Barton used it in the 1980s when he wrote articles about what he called the New Wave of British Heavy Metal. Those are not opinions and are also incorrect statements

It's cool with me if you have opinions and state them, but making claims that are totally untrue is dumb and annoying.

 

[rusty water]

How the hell can loud describe a genre of music?

I think they are using LOUD as a part of the description, for the overall picture, You can certainly attribute loud to heavy metal, because for the most part it is, as is heavy rock or hard rock.

 

[rusty water]

Elric. lets not go into the Sabbath being labelled heavy metal thing, What I am asking isnt to do with that at all, I am asking, what in the opinions of anyone in here is the definition of heavy metal. I posted a google definition and I posted a dictionary definition, now, if you agree with those definitions, fine, but why. And if you dont agree with those definitions, fine also, but why. This isnt to do with Sabbath.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I disagree with that description because Black Sabbath and Judas Priest and any bands like them are definitely heavy metal bands, yet that description does not sound like the music that they created. It's very simple to understand and was already explained to you in an earlier post.

 

[rusty water]

I disagree with that description because Black Sabbath and Judas Priest and any bands like them are definitely heavy metal bands, yet that description does not sound like the music that they created. It's very simple to understand and was already explained to you in an earlier post.

It is good you give your opinion. If you say those definitions given, by google and an online dictionary are incorrect, what I am asking is that if you can, or if anyone at all can, post what heavy metal IS. no one can do that so far. You disagree with the google and the dictionary definition of what heavy metal music is, so what in your opinion then is the definition of heavy metal music. No one at all in the forum has given their definition.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

what I am asking is that if you can, or if anyone at all can, post what heavy metal IS. no one can do that so far.

That's weird since I already posted an answer to your query.

It's a type of rock music defined by a heavier sound that can vary quite a bit. It certainly doesn't require a harsh sonic structure and shouted or screamed vocals make up a minority of the vocalizations of traditional heavy metal forms.

To expand upon this extant definition that was given during this very conversation, the variation of heavy metal as a genre is due to several different movements that occurred during different time periods that resulted in different styles of heavy metal that are all commonly derived from a core style.

It could be argued that there are some variations of heavy metal that loosely match up with the description that you provided, but it is far from being an absolute requirement or something that the majority adhere to.

 

[rusty water]

So your definition of heavy metal is ` It's a type of rock music defined by a heavier sound that can vary quite a bit` ??? because that is what you posted and then reposted as saying that is what you think it is `It's a type of rock music defined by a heavier sound that can vary quite a bit` because that applies to most rock music and is vague. That would apply to almost any hard rock band.

That definition is not going to separate hard rock or heavy rock from heavy metal. We both agree that there is a difference right??

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I'm not really interested in attempting to totally define heavy metal. I'm merely providing a solid enough description of it and I've already demonstrated why the description that you provided isn't accurate, which was the question that you initially sought a response to.

I'm really very uninterested in discussing this type of topic with someone such as yourself, who has admitted to disliking heavy metal music as a whole and has a documented history of providing incorrect information to justify your claims.

 

[rusty water]

I like the early Scorpions material which had Ulrich Roth on guitar, and I consider that to be heavy rock or hard rock, and there is a clear difference between that era of Scorpions music and the one where Mathias Jabbs played guitar, to me that era is heavy metal. There is a clear difference between the early scorpions and the second version, it is like two completely different bands.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Ironically, the earlier Scorpions music with Uli Jon Roth is generally considered to be heavy metal by many, unlike the later music that treads a relatively pedestrian hard rock format and has far less in common with heavy metal.

 

[rusty water]

I'm not really interested in attempting to totally define heavy metal. I'm merely providing a solid enough description of it and I've already demonstrated why the description that you provided isn't accurate, which was the question that you initially sought a response to.

I'm really very uninterested in discussing this type of topic with someone such as yourself, who has admitted to disliking heavy metal music as a whole and has a documented history of providing incorrect information to justify your claims.

So you cannot define it, or you would. I am hoping someone can give their own definition of it, if they disagree with the dictionary definition.

I do like heavy metal music, I like the Jabbs era of scorpions ( amongst lots of other metal bands ), well, the first part of it before they commercialised. Lovedrive and animal magnetism albums are superb, but I cant stand the track` rock you like a hurricane`.

 

[rusty water]

Ironically, the earlier Scorpions music with Uli Jon Roth is generally considered to be heavy metal by many, unlike the later music that treads a relatively pedestrian hard rock format and has far less in common with heavy metal.

Why do you say that?? It is the polar opposite to my opinion. I mean songs like `fly to the rainbow` are to me, progressive rock. They are exprerimental in places, and hard rock. Whereas with Jabbs the studded wrist bands came out and the fast and loud power chords that are synonimous with heavy metal.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

The description that I gave provided at least as much information about what the music sounded like as the one that you gave, especially since I provided examples of what heavy metal sounds like in the form of specific bands mentioned by name.