Controversial opinions on metal

[CiG]

Only a true fuckhead puts Pearl Jam above Nirvana.

 

[The Batlord]

Motherfucking +1

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Nirvana > Soundgarden > Alice in Chains. STP and Pearl Jam have a few good songs, but that's about it.

not grunge, but this was being played all day on mtv back in 93-94.

.. i like it.

 

[The Ozzman]

Only a true fuckhead puts Pearl Jam above Nirvana.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The first three Blind Melon albums are great. I know some people say they're really derivative of 70s psych rock, but I haven't heard any really strong comparisons (but I don't know much about psych rock so they could be right). Their new album was dental office rock though.

Might as well bring up Smashing Pumpkins too. Siamese Dream >>> 99% of other grunge/alt rock of the time. Too bad Mellon Collie was mostly filler.

King's X too, actually, since they were a pretty obvious influence on three of the big four (everything but Nirvana).

 

[The Batlord]

Might as well bring up Smashing Pumpkins too. Siamese Dream >>> 99% of other grunge/alt rock of the time. Too bad Mellon Collie was mostly filler.

I like a few of their songs, love "Zero", but other than that I kind of fucking hate Smashing Pumpkins. I hate their shitty, highschool goth-quality lyrics. I hate their cringey, melodramatic, phoney emotional bullshit, cynically designed to trick generic sad sack, 90s teenagers into thinking they're deep. And I hate their dull, milktoast, monotonous songwriting that rips off My Bloody Valentine, rips off grunge, and "Bullet with Butterfly Wings" is a shitty attempt at ripping off Nirvana.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

How do they rip off MBV? MBV is some of the most bland overrated shit in existence regardless, Smashing Pumpkins were easily their superiors in songwriting.

Nirvana's career was just an attempt at ripping of the Pixies, Jesus Lizard, Melvins, etc, so who gives a shit.

 

[The Batlord]

How do they rip off MBV? MBV is some of the most bland overrated shit in existence regardless, Smashing Pumpkins were easily their superiors in songwriting.

It was a pretty major "influence", except they watered it down and made it tepid enough that it's easy to miss. "Cherub Rock" is one of the easiest examples. And MBV are awesome, ball licker.

Nirvana's career was just an attempt at ripping of the Pixies, Jesus Lizard, Melvins, etc, so who gives a shit.

And Pantera ripped off Exhorder, or so the plebs who can't tell the difference between influence and thievery would have you believe. Difference with Smashing Pumpkins is they were phonies whose sound was an awkward mish-mash of their influences that never meshed into a coherent sound of its own.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Smashing pumpkins were good, but Nirvana weren't? LOL! Cooooome ooon over and do the twwiiist! Aneurysm inducing posts.

 

[The Batlord]

Smashing pumpkins were good, but Nirvana weren't? LOL! Cooooome ooon over and do the twwiiist! Aneurysm inducing posts.

I'd say Nirvana were overrated, but you'd have to be with as much people have been sucking their dicks for the past two decades. They're still plenty awesome though.

HBB unintentionally brought up a good point though. Even though they're generally not considered such, Melvins were hands down the best grunge band or grunge affiliated band.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It was a pretty major "influence", except they watered it down and made it tepid enough that it's easy to miss. "Cherub Rock" is one of the easiest examples. And MBV are awesome, ball licker.

And Pantera ripped off Exhorder, or so the plebs who can't tell the difference between influence and thievery would have you believe. Difference with Smashing Pumpkins is they were phonies whose sound was an awkward mish-mash of their influences that never meshed into a coherent sound of its own.

Name an MBV song that sounds like Cherub Rock.

Mish-mash IS the Nirvana sound. Cobain was extremely open about being heavily influenced by many bands. One song it's an indie Pixies thing, next song it's a heavily feedbacking screamy Jesus Lizard thing, next song might be more punk rock, etc. Siamese Dream has a very homogeneous sound despite featuring very distinct songs.

Smashing pumpkins were good, but Nirvana weren't? LOL! Cooooome ooon over and do the twwiiist! Aneurysm inducing posts.

I like Nirvana, I'm just saying that Batlord is being a tard if he thinks the Smashing Pumpkins qualify as a ripoff band and Nirvana doesn't.

 

[The Batlord]

Name an MBV song that sounds like Cherub Rock.

I JUSt said that they heavily water down the sound (wouldn't be good for mass consumption otherwise). They don't have any songs that particularly sound like MBV, but it's a heavy element of their sound. I could just say that it's an influence, but SP took a lot of "influences" to cover up for the fact that Billy Corgan had no vision.

Mish-mash IS the Nirvana sound. Cobain was extremely open about being heavily influenced by many bands. One song it's an indie Pixies thing, next song it's a heavily feedbacking screamy Jesus Lizard thing, next song might be more punk rock, etc. Siamese Dream has a very homogeneous sound despite featuring very distinct songs.

What artist isn't open about being heavily influenced by other artists? Who are these magical artists that spring fully-formed without the aid of others?

I like Nirvana, I'm just saying that Batlord is being a tard if he thinks the Smashing Pumpkins qualify as a ripoff band and Nirvana doesn't.

Nah. People just look for excuses to shit on bands that are popular, and one of the easiest ways is to claim they're ripping other bands off when they're no more ripping off other bands than any other artist who is influenced by another artist. Smashing Pumpkins just happens to be one of those bands where the haters are right.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

How do they water down the sound? Smashing Pumpkins actually had riffs. MBV just strums away on one chord under shitloads of effect pedals and people eat it up. There's no comparison in terms of composition between MBV and the Pumpkins. No surprise that shoegaze chose black metal as the vector to infiltrate metal with. MBV is just a vastly inferior and more gimmicky Cocteau Twins anyways.

You can't even name a single riff or melody line where SP ripped off MBV. Sad.

 

[The Batlord]

How do they water down the sound?

The whole monotonous swaths of guitar with heavy distortion thing? It's total MBV, except they stripped it of most of the actual distortion cause it wouldn't sell, leaving us with toothless shoegaze thievery making lame, cut-rate sludge riffs just plain awkward.

Smashing Pumpkins actually had riffs.

Fuck their riffs.

MBV just strums away on one chord under shitloads of effect pedals and people eat it up. There's no comparison in terms of composition between MBV and the Pumpkins. No surprise that shoegaze chose black metal as the vector to infiltrate metal with. MBV is just a vastly inferior and more gimmicky Cocteau Twins anyways.

And it was amazing. Immersive atmosphere out the ass.

You can't even name a single riff or melody line where SP ripped off MBV. Sad.

I've said twice that it was sound and not songs that Smashing Pumpkins ripped off. Try learning to read, ground chuck.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Wow so they ripped off a "sound". Let's dismiss literally every metal band in existence aside from maybe 10 or so.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Extremely ironic from a guy that's presumably a fan of Quorthon, arguably the biggest plagiarist in all of metal, and certainly the least talented hack.

 

[The Batlord]

Wow so they ripped off a "sound". Let's dismiss literally every metal band in existence aside from maybe 10 or so.

Yes. They ripped off a sound. A pretty distinct sound too.

Extremely ironic from a guy that's presumably a fan of Quorthon, arguably the biggest plagiarist in all of metal, and certainly the least talented hack.

Well at least now I know you're an incompetent, but please, enlighten me.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Do you consider literally every shoegaze band to be a ripoff of MBV?

He ripped off Venom and early thrash bands (e.g. Slayer and Sodom) for a few years, then decided to copy-cat Manowar instead. Quorthon's biggest innovation was in convincing idiots that bad production is original and worthy of a new sub-genre term.

 

[Phylactery]

Don't even bother arguing with Burgerboy on Bathory. He's a vehement hater of Bathory and most black metal.

It's obvious that Quorthorn was heavily influenced by Venom, Slayer and Sodom and denied it. Everyone knows this. It's also true that his later work has a big influence from Manowar. Still, to call him a talentless hack is absurd. By Under the Sign... he had clearly created his own sound using those influences and it's unfair to say it's a complete rip off of some other band.

 

[The Batlord]

Do you consider literally every shoegaze band to be a ripoff of MBV?

He ripped off Venom and early thrash bands (e.g. Slayer and Sodom) for a few years, then decided to copy-cat Manowar instead. Quorthon's biggest innovation was in convincing idiots that bad production is original and worthy of a new sub-genre term.

See, this is where you fail. (Good) shoegaze bands and Bathory took their influences and did something unique with them to craft a sound all their own. Smashing Pumpkins tricked people into thinking they had an original sound by cobbling enough shit together that people who didn't know who MBV was wouldn't notice.