Controversial opinions on metal

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Smashing pumpkins were good, but Nirvana weren't? LOL! Cooooome ooon over and do the twwiiist! Aneurysm inducing posts.

 

[The Batlord]

Smashing pumpkins were good, but Nirvana weren't? LOL! Cooooome ooon over and do the twwiiist! Aneurysm inducing posts.

I'd say Nirvana were overrated, but you'd have to be with as much people have been sucking their dicks for the past two decades. They're still plenty awesome though.

HBB unintentionally brought up a good point though. Even though they're generally not considered such, Melvins were hands down the best grunge band or grunge affiliated band.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It was a pretty major "influence", except they watered it down and made it tepid enough that it's easy to miss. "Cherub Rock" is one of the easiest examples. And MBV are awesome, ball licker.

And Pantera ripped off Exhorder, or so the plebs who can't tell the difference between influence and thievery would have you believe. Difference with Smashing Pumpkins is they were phonies whose sound was an awkward mish-mash of their influences that never meshed into a coherent sound of its own.

Name an MBV song that sounds like Cherub Rock.

Mish-mash IS the Nirvana sound. Cobain was extremely open about being heavily influenced by many bands. One song it's an indie Pixies thing, next song it's a heavily feedbacking screamy Jesus Lizard thing, next song might be more punk rock, etc. Siamese Dream has a very homogeneous sound despite featuring very distinct songs.

Smashing pumpkins were good, but Nirvana weren't? LOL! Cooooome ooon over and do the twwiiist! Aneurysm inducing posts.

I like Nirvana, I'm just saying that Batlord is being a tard if he thinks the Smashing Pumpkins qualify as a ripoff band and Nirvana doesn't.

 

[The Batlord]

Name an MBV song that sounds like Cherub Rock.

I JUSt said that they heavily water down the sound (wouldn't be good for mass consumption otherwise). They don't have any songs that particularly sound like MBV, but it's a heavy element of their sound. I could just say that it's an influence, but SP took a lot of "influences" to cover up for the fact that Billy Corgan had no vision.

Mish-mash IS the Nirvana sound. Cobain was extremely open about being heavily influenced by many bands. One song it's an indie Pixies thing, next song it's a heavily feedbacking screamy Jesus Lizard thing, next song might be more punk rock, etc. Siamese Dream has a very homogeneous sound despite featuring very distinct songs.

What artist isn't open about being heavily influenced by other artists? Who are these magical artists that spring fully-formed without the aid of others?

I like Nirvana, I'm just saying that Batlord is being a tard if he thinks the Smashing Pumpkins qualify as a ripoff band and Nirvana doesn't.

Nah. People just look for excuses to shit on bands that are popular, and one of the easiest ways is to claim they're ripping other bands off when they're no more ripping off other bands than any other artist who is influenced by another artist. Smashing Pumpkins just happens to be one of those bands where the haters are right.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

How do they water down the sound? Smashing Pumpkins actually had riffs. MBV just strums away on one chord under shitloads of effect pedals and people eat it up. There's no comparison in terms of composition between MBV and the Pumpkins. No surprise that shoegaze chose black metal as the vector to infiltrate metal with. MBV is just a vastly inferior and more gimmicky Cocteau Twins anyways.

You can't even name a single riff or melody line where SP ripped off MBV. Sad.

 

[The Batlord]

How do they water down the sound?

The whole monotonous swaths of guitar with heavy distortion thing? It's total MBV, except they stripped it of most of the actual distortion cause it wouldn't sell, leaving us with toothless shoegaze thievery making lame, cut-rate sludge riffs just plain awkward.

Smashing Pumpkins actually had riffs.

Fuck their riffs.

MBV just strums away on one chord under shitloads of effect pedals and people eat it up. There's no comparison in terms of composition between MBV and the Pumpkins. No surprise that shoegaze chose black metal as the vector to infiltrate metal with. MBV is just a vastly inferior and more gimmicky Cocteau Twins anyways.

And it was amazing. Immersive atmosphere out the ass.

You can't even name a single riff or melody line where SP ripped off MBV. Sad.

I've said twice that it was sound and not songs that Smashing Pumpkins ripped off. Try learning to read, ground chuck.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Wow so they ripped off a "sound". Let's dismiss literally every metal band in existence aside from maybe 10 or so.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Extremely ironic from a guy that's presumably a fan of Quorthon, arguably the biggest plagiarist in all of metal, and certainly the least talented hack.

 

[The Batlord]

Wow so they ripped off a "sound". Let's dismiss literally every metal band in existence aside from maybe 10 or so.

Yes. They ripped off a sound. A pretty distinct sound too.

Extremely ironic from a guy that's presumably a fan of Quorthon, arguably the biggest plagiarist in all of metal, and certainly the least talented hack.

Well at least now I know you're an incompetent, but please, enlighten me.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Do you consider literally every shoegaze band to be a ripoff of MBV?

He ripped off Venom and early thrash bands (e.g. Slayer and Sodom) for a few years, then decided to copy-cat Manowar instead. Quorthon's biggest innovation was in convincing idiots that bad production is original and worthy of a new sub-genre term.

 

[Phylactery]

Don't even bother arguing with Burgerboy on Bathory. He's a vehement hater of Bathory and most black metal.

It's obvious that Quorthorn was heavily influenced by Venom, Slayer and Sodom and denied it. Everyone knows this. It's also true that his later work has a big influence from Manowar. Still, to call him a talentless hack is absurd. By Under the Sign... he had clearly created his own sound using those influences and it's unfair to say it's a complete rip off of some other band.

 

[The Batlord]

Do you consider literally every shoegaze band to be a ripoff of MBV?

He ripped off Venom and early thrash bands (e.g. Slayer and Sodom) for a few years, then decided to copy-cat Manowar instead. Quorthon's biggest innovation was in convincing idiots that bad production is original and worthy of a new sub-genre term.

See, this is where you fail. (Good) shoegaze bands and Bathory took their influences and did something unique with them to craft a sound all their own. Smashing Pumpkins tricked people into thinking they had an original sound by cobbling enough shit together that people who didn't know who MBV was wouldn't notice.

 

[The Batlord]

It's obvious that Quorthorn was heavily influenced by Venom, Slayer and Sodom and denied it.

I don't remember if it was him or someone else, but I think it was him who claimed to have not even listened to Venom when he first started. I guess I can understand why a guy trying to be taken seriously would want to distance himself from Venom, but come on, bro.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

See, this is where you fail. (Good) shoegaze bands and Bathory took their influences and did something unique with them to craft a sound all their own. Smashing Pumpkins tricked people into thinking they had an original sound by cobbling enough shit together that people who didn't know who MBV was wouldn't notice.

No they didn't. Aesthetic is always secondary to songwriting unless you're a poser fuck. The only song on Siamese Dream that resembles MBV (Sometimes) is Disarm. Otherwise, the entire similarity ends with effect pedals.

In contrast, Quorthon directly plagiarized melodies and riffs on the regular. Even conceptually he was a thief, the entire "Viking metal" gimmick being wholly created by Manowar circa 1983. His most original music came in the transition between copying thrash and copying power metal (third and fourth albums), but there is nothing groundbreaking to be found on any Bathory album.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't remember if it was him or someone else, but I think it was him who claimed to have not even listened to Venom when he first started. I guess I can understand why a guy trying to be taken seriously would want to distance himself from Venom, but come on, bro.

And he later admitted he lied about that. Holy fuck you're ignorant, go back to NWN where you can masturbate to your favorite talentless failure in your own little safe space away from the reality of the matter.

 

[Phylactery]

I don't remember if it was him or someone else, but I think it was him who claimed to have not even listened to Venom when he first started. I guess I can understand why a guy trying to be taken seriously would want to distance himself from Venom, but come on, bro.

Yes it was him. Early on he claimed to have never heard any Venom material. Listening to Bathory and The Return shows that he was obviously lying about it.

 

[The Batlord]

No they didn't. Aesthetic is always secondary to songwriting unless you're a poser fuck. The only song on Siamese Dream that resembles MBV (Sometimes) is Disarm. Otherwise, the entire similarity ends with effect pedals.

Everything that goes into music is as important as the artist makes it. It's art, you clod. It doesn't have rules like "Aesthetic is always secondary to songwriting" because that's just an arbitrary line in the sand that you drew based on your preferences.

In contrast, Quorthon directly plagiarized melodies and riffs on the regular. Even conceptually he was a thief, the entire "Viking metal" gimmick being wholly created by Manowar circa 1983. His most original music came in the transition between copying thrash and copying power metal (third and fourth albums), but there is nothing groundbreaking to be found on any Bathory album.

Maybe he did. Shakespeare wasn't exactly the most original dude either. But both created awesomeness with their nickings. And while I fucking masturbate to Manowar and Into Glory Ride, and acknowledge the debt Quorthon owes them, if Into Glory Ride is Conan, then Hammerheart is Lord of the Rings. Quorthon took that shit, ran with it, and made it all his own.

Also, Manowar invented Viking metal? They had some goofy lyrics about Vikings cause they're macho goofballs, but Quorthon was coming from an entirely different perspective, so comparing the two lyrically is pretty dense.

 

[The Batlord]

And he later admitted he lied about that. Holy fuck you're ignorant, go back to NWN where you can masturbate to your favorite talentless failure in your own little safe space away from the reality of the matter.

Sorry for not being an autistic uber-nerd and failing to stay completely informed on all artist interviews ever made. For somebody who hates Bathory you sure seem to be obsessed with the band.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Everything that goes into music is as important as the artist makes it. It's art, you clod. It doesn't have rules like "Aesthetic is always secondary to songwriting" because that's just an arbitrary line in the sand that you drew based on your preferences.

Maybe he did. Shakespeare wasn't exactly the most original dude either. But both created awesomeness with their nickings. And while I fucking masturbate to Manowar and Into Glory Ride, and acknowledge the debt Quorthon owes them, if Into Glory Ride is Conan, then Hammerheart is Lord of the Rings. Quorthon took that shit, ran with it, and made it all his own.

Also, Manowar invented Viking metal? They had some goofy lyrics about Vikings cause they're macho goofballs, but Quorthon was coming from an entirely different perspective, so comparing the two lyrically is pretty dense.

He made it his own only because he suckered a lot of fools that don't even listen to most 80s metal.

Yeah, Quorthon was totally just channeling his inner pagan identity through his dad's basement. So genuine <3

Sorry for not being an autistic uber-nerd and failing to stay completely informed on all artist interviews ever made. For somebody who hates Bathory you sure seem to be obsessed with the band.

"I have uninformed opinions, that makes me smrt :^)"

 

[Krow]

go back to NWN where you can masturbate to your favorite talentless failure in your own little safe space away from the reality of the matter.

Is this really an insult here now?