Controversial opinions on metal

[Black Friday]

lol

SIT
Powerslave
Iron Maiden
SSOASS
Number
Killers
BNW
DoD
Piece of Mind

Same except POM is transposed to the top of the list.

 

[Mort Divine]

You seem to be knowledgeable on the subject, so could you recommend me some specific releases for the bands you mentioned, and others?

Clouds - Legendary Demo
Cursive - The Ugly Organ
Dead Meadow - Old Growth
Joanna Newsom - Ys
Mew - Frengers
M83 - Before the Dawn Heals Us
Two Gallants - What The Toll Tells
Rilo Kiley - The Execution of All Things
The Appleseed Cast - Low Level Owl (get both LLO albums, absolutely FANTASTIC)
Slint - Spiderland
Rufus Wainwright - Want Two

 

[Woolie Wool]

Number of the Beast ftw!

The Number of the Beast was a messy transition album that was not as raw and energetic as Killers, not as refined as Piece of Mind, and not half as good as either. "Hallowed Be Thy Name" is the classic of classics, but "Invaders" is goofy, "22 Acacia Avenue" is dull, "Run to the Hills" is pushing accessibility a bit too far, and "Gangland" sucks in every aspect.

Also, people who complain that progressive metal doesn't progress towards anything don't understand that "progressive" in progressive rock came from the Progressive radio format, not some fundamental progression in the music. Progressive metal is simply the distinguishing characteristics of progressive rock (either in part or in full) transferred to metal. What people want "progressive metal" to mean is actually avant-garde metal.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

2nd part of your post ftw.

 

[S<issors]

blasphemy sir!

 

[Mort Divine]

some progressive metal IS actually progressive and not gay and 'avant-garde'

come on man, I mean shit Pain of Salvation, Devin Townsend, Mechanical Poet, and Sculptured for exmple

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

OK, true yeah. But MOST is just thinly-veiled Dream Theater worship.

 

[Mort Divine]

oh yeah, also metal bands can not be avant-garde. one or the other.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

The Number of the Beast was a messy transition album that was not as raw and energetic as Killers, not as refined as Piece of Mind, and not half as good as either. "Hallowed Be Thy Name" is the classic of classics, but "Invaders" is goofy, "22 Acacia Avenue" is dull, "Run to the Hills" is pushing accessibility a bit too far, and "Gangland" sucks in every aspect.

Also, people who complain that progressive metal doesn't progress towards anything don't understand that "progressive" in progressive rock came from the Progressive radio format, not some fundamental progression in the music. Progressive metal is simply the distinguishing characteristics of progressive rock (either in part or in full) transferred to metal. What people want "progressive metal" to mean is actually avant-garde metal.

22 Accacia Ave is one of the top 5 Maiden songs TBH.

 

[False Joe]

22 Accacia Ave is one of the top 5 Maiden songs TBH.

No. Just, no.

 

[SentinelSlain]

killers is just way way better than notb.

I quite like di'anno

Avenger are one of the better (not famous) nwobhm bands.

 

[The Ozzman]

Hallowed Be Thy Name is one of the top 5 Maiden songs TBH.

FYPSIQFT

 

[no country for old wainds]

This may only apply to this forum but I find Demigod's Slumber of Sullen Eyes to be a tad overrated. It's got some totally kick-ass moments but I find the album, as a whole, to be a bit meh.

it definitely isn't just this forum that worships that album, which is good 'cause it's nothing short of brilliant. never before or since has a band created a sound that's so bludgeoningly huge in every respect, let alone integrated that sound with an otherworldly mysticism that adds completely new dimensions. the whole thing just has this vast, epic, mythical quality that shouldn't work but is forced into fruition by the band's ability to flaunt subtlety and class without sacrificing the no-bullshit core. it actually sounds like real demigods at work. you've got to at least admit the title track is amazing.

 

[Vegard Pompey]

The Number of the Beast was a messy transition album that was not as raw and energetic as Killers, not as refined as Piece of Mind, and not half as good as either. "Hallowed Be Thy Name" is the classic of classics, but "Invaders" is goofy, "22 Acacia Avenue" is dull, "Run to the Hills" is pushing accessibility a bit too far, and "Gangland" sucks in every aspect.

I disagree about 22 Acacia Avenue, but other than that, you're absolutely right. Run to the Hills deserves some credits for being possibly the most instantly recognizable metal song ever though.

Dun-deeh-deeh dun-deeh-deeh dun-deeh-deeh DUN doff.

 

[Life Sucks]

oh yeah, also metal bands can not be avant-garde. one or the other.

No way. There is plenty of avant garde metal. It would even make more sense to say metal bands can't be progressive, though this is obviously not the case either.

 

[cookiecutter]

Ok, well I didn't understand why you brought up the phenomenon of disagreement to supplement your claims, unless you were simply trying to point out that you wouldn't know how to settle a disagreement between you and an Opeth fan (because you don't know how to justify claims about aesthetic value).

Anyway, I share some of your skepticism about being able to justify these kinds of claims. I think, however, that people who take this skeptical view often oversimplify these matters. People tend to act like different kinds of music or different bands are like different flavors and that having a favorite band is like having a favorite ice cream flavor. And we can understand why people would be skeptical about aesthetic value claims if they took this sort of view; it makes no sense to argue over which of two ice cream flavors is better. But the view of music which leads to that skepticism is far from being obviously correct. Some alternative to this all-too-simple view about the nature of music and aesthetic experience might have some different implications for the nature of aesthetic value claims.

Good post. Cleared a lot up for me.

 

[Mort Divine]

No way. There is plenty of avant garde metal. It would even make more sense to say metal bands can't be progressive, though this is obviously not the case either.

No, avant-garde music by the very nature of its being can NOT be any other genre. It must be essentially devoid of all musical convention, and if a band is playing a genre that is reasonably 'conventional' within the realms of musical technique (which metal is) then the band can NOT be considered to be 'avant-garde.'

Experimental is the proper term for bands wrongly called avant-garde metal.

 

[Omni]

Mort is right.

 

[Vegard Pompey]

And for the record,

SSOASS
AMOLAD
Killers
The X Factor
Piece of Mind
Powerslave
Somewhere in Time
Dance of Death
Brave New World
No Prayer for the Dying
The Number of the Beast
Fear of the Dark
s/t
Virtual XI

 

[S<issors]

Mort is right.

Mort is wrong. "Avant garde" as a descriptor just means that something is innovative, ahead of the pack, pushing at the limits of the norm. Obviously you can have a band under any genre heading that fulfills those criteria.