Controversial opinions on metal
- Thread starter The Ozzman
- Start date
There is no need to clutter up my posts further with 'in my opinion' when I state something. 
Most of what I've heard has been Iced Earth clones, so that's my impression of American Power Metal. In my defense, from what I've heard/read, Iced Earth clones constitute a large portion of American power metal.
It probably has a lot in common with 80s hard rock/metal as well. Considering that the choruses are so catchy and uplifting, and the keyboards sound pretty 80s as well.
rms
Active Member
Well this is huge fail, seeing as the scene started in the late 70s IE has been cloning these bands for ages, and tbh american power metal doesnt sound anything like IE
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
Get the following:
Jag Panzer - Ample Destruction
Agent Steel - Skeptics Apocalypse
Crescent Shield - The Last of my Kind
Fate's Warning - The Spectre Within
Sanctuary - Refuge Denied
I'm no expert on USPM but those are pretty awesome.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Finnish Idol. Finnish Idol. Let's face it; Finnish Idol is not mainstream pop. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather watch Finnish Idol than American Idol any day; but mainstream is judged by American cultural standards, and that is a fact. American pop breaks through in countries around the world. Metal has yet to do so. It is far below the commercial standards of conventional pop, and it has an infinitely higher talent level. Finnish Idol... no sir, that is not mainstream culture. Everyone around the world knows who Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera are; I'm willing to bet that a shit ton of people have never heard of Sonata Arctica. Pop culture constitutes shit that you don't want to hear about, but you can't help it because it's all over the news, MTV, and community gossip. I understand your argument-and as I said, I'd much rather watch Finnish Idol-but it's not mainstream.
And Lordi isn't power metal, so that's not part of my argument.
rms
Active Member
skeptik
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Well US Power Metal predates Iced Earth, and frankly I don't really see Iced Earth as US Power Metal to begin with. US Power Metal is an 80s phenomenon largely.
Einherjar86
Active Member
There's a difference between national mainstream and global mainstream. There are very few Finnish "mainstream" artists who are known worldwide, but there are several American/English artists who are known and recognized by nations all over the world. Now, I haven't performed tests or studies to verify this, but I'd venture to say that metal can really only be considered a mainstream form of music in Scandinavian countries and in Japan (maybe). Other than that, it is far from mainstream. Then you have American/English artists who are listened to and recognized all over the world, and who sell far more tickets than metal musicians ever do.
And let's recall that this whole argument began by Mort claiming that power "flower" metal is essentially pop. It's not. The musical tenets are far-removed. See what Life Sucks said about metal and progressive music. And metal cannot compete with the consumerism and press of mainstream pop on a global scale. They simply cannot be compared.
skeptik
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Mainstream is mainstream, regardless of country. Your argument that I was responding to was that Metal does not have the same audience as mainstream pop, and my examples prove that this is hardly invariably true. Pop culture is a much broader categorization than you would like to pigeonhole it as for the sake of your argument. Each country has its own mainstream, which is just as valid in this argument as any other, regardless of how much you would like to dismiss this. "Mainstream" is not automatically a global phenomenon. To purport that Finnish Idol is not mainstream is just...absurd.
Your argument was that Metal and mainstream pop don't have the same audience. Lordi proves that there is an overlap.
All of this, however, is completely and entirely irrelevant to the argument of whether or not Flower Metal has any parallels with pop music. And it certainly does.
Einherjar86
Active Member
No dude, you can't compare national mainstream with global mainstream. The audience is far different. Global mainstream music has a far wider audience base and enjoys far wider ticket and album sales. Metal cannot compete with mainstream, it does not even compare because the audience is far different.
It's not irrelevant; it shows that metal doesn't have the commercial appeal that mainstream pop does (global mainstream, keep in mind; there are millions of young teenage girls who love pop music but who would never find Sonata Arctica appealing).
Furthermore, "flower" metal has very few parallels with pop music. It has parallels in that it's music; but beyond that, you're doing nothing but furthering falsities to support and encourage your opinion that flower metal sucks. So give up on it.
Alright, fine. Nothing against you or anything.
I mostly listen to metal. Then also some hardcore/punk and classical music.
Life Sucks
and then you die
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
skeptik
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I didn't say that they're comparable, but you can't dismiss it either. And stop using "mainstream" as a synonym of "global mainstream." In many areas, metal does compete with "mainstream", and is a part of it.
See my above post. In some areas, it does. Dismissing this point for the sake of your argument is unacceptable.
Have you actually heard a lot of this type of music? It's fundamentally structured like a pop song, the main difference being distorted guitars. I am not using this as a criticism, but rather as a simple point of fact that there are blatant similarities between "Flower" Metal and more traditional "pop" music. They're both clearly products of mass art.
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
DarkBliss
...And okra for all
Einherjar86
Active Member
But many people don't find that alone appealing. I understand that it's catchy, but that doesn't constitute pop. 70s Genesis has catchy songs. King Crimson has catchy songs. You can't base it on that alone. The rhythm, speed, and aggression of metal is a turn-off for most mainstream listeners.
I appreciate your shift in tone away from insulting me to simply arguing with me. Perhaps compete was a bad choice of words; they do compete, but still, metal is far below the mainstream level that most western pop has achieved on a global scale.
I simply disagree with you, but I feel that there are far more differences than merely distorted guitars. The rhythm, speed and aggression of metal is a major turn-off for most mainstream listeners. I understand that the catchiness sometimes mimics pop music, but there is far more drive and rhythmic pounding to metal. People can't dance to it, which seems to be something many mainstream enthusiasts enjoy.
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
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