Controversial opinions on metal

[DarkBliss]

Meh, all Emperor albums have some amazing songs on them, but they're just too dense for me.
Also, controversial as it may be, Cadaver's second album is the greatest tech death album from the early 90s by a thousand miles at least. So incredibly fluid and hypnotic; I honestly don't get people who dislike it.
Compositionally, it kinda reminds me of early At the Gates, except with the bass being so tastefully understated.

 

[Cythraul]

It's boring.

 

[DarkBliss]

Yes, because you're a riff slut. No offense.

I actually played it for a friend of mine who doesn't even like death metal that much and he loved it on the first listen. Maybe it's because of the groove. I dunno, I've never heard anything quite like it. Also, the recommended volume setting for listening to it is as loud as you possibly dare.

For some reason it reminds me of Can so strongly, especially Ege Bamyasi.

And I don't really get Burzum as of yet, but I'll keep trying, I guess. Millions of fans can't be wrong, or can they? Ha.

 

[no country for old wainds]

i just don't really like the sterile, clinical, surgical feel of cadaver. not my tin of oranges. no doubt it's compositionally fluid though.

 

[DarkBliss]

I love how everything just harmonizes: the vocals go hand in hand with the music; even the seemingly empty spaces/breaks in the songs are filled ingeniously with well-pronounced whispers( like on the second track. It's just amazing. I've listened to it for years now and it never gets old. Grtanted, it can be depressing, but it's never too oppressive.

 

[Mort Divine]

I'd really like to see you elaborate on how The Chasm are technically excessive, ever, because I definitely don't hear it.

 

[DarkBliss]

They have a shrill ear-splintering guitar tone. On Deathcult, I mean. Of course they're not as verse-chorus happy as later Death, but still, the wank element is present

 

[Mort Divine]

And that indicates technical excess how?

Even so you're grossly exaggerating the way the tone sounds, it is pretty muffled not ear piercing.

 

[no country for old wainds]

And that indicates technical excess how?

lol i second this question

there's barely a moment of wanking on the whole thing imo, it's very tightly coiled

 

[DarkBliss]

And that indicates technical excess how?

By being aesthetically unpleasant to my ears
It's good thing they dropped it on Conjuration, which also flows better, I think.

 

[DarkBliss]

And Malign Paradigm: I respect your opinion cos' your lists have turned me to some real gems in extreme metal, but to call Dimmu Borgir theatrical in a genre that is inherently such(let's be honest here, for once) is akin to singling out a fly in a swarm of moths, i.e. pointless. Sure, they overdo the theatrics, but so do bands that enjoy a cult following. The fact that they were always followers doesn;t necessarily make them inferior.

In fact, many contemporary OSDM acts retread the works of the old masters constantly, yet the cries for unoriginality are always directed at those bands who are most popular.


Emperor set the trend for theatrics in Black Metal, already incorporating clean vocals on ITNE and then progressing into melodramatic symphonic extremes. They're pompous right down to their name, and the exclamation: "Emperor plays sophisticated black metal exclusively". So what? Both Emperor and Dimmu Borgir have many fans, and the fact that DB sold more records than say, Obtained Enslavement doesn't make the latter vastly superior. In fact, many ordinary people enjoy Dimmu and Emperor equally whilst being oblivious to the sonic hierarchy established by some guy in Texas.Or the highly dubious fact that DB mainly appeal to posers.

 

[Mort Divine]

could be that

 

[Slayed Necros]

And Malign Paradigm: I respect your opinion cos' your lists have turned me to some real gems in extreme metal, but to call Dimmu Borgir theatrical in a genre that is inherently such(let's be honest here, for once) is akin to singling out a fly in a swarm of moths, i.e. pointless. Sure, they overdo the theatrics, but so do bands that enjoy a cult following. The fact that they were always followers doesn;t necessarily make them inferior.

In fact, many contemporary OSDM acts retread the works of the old masters constantly, yet the cries for unoriginality are always directed at those bands who are most popular.


Emperor set the trend for theatrics in Black Metal, already incorporating clean vocals on ITNE and then progressing into melodramatic symphonic extremes. They're pompous right down to their name, and the exclamation: "Emperor plays sophisticated black metal exclusively". So what? Both Emperor and Dimmu Borgir have many fans, and the fact that DB sold more records than say, Obtained Enslavement doesn't make the latter vastly superior. In fact, many ordinary people enjoy Dimmu and Emperor equally whilst being oblivious to the sonic hierarchy established by some guy in Texas.Or the highly dubious fact that DB mainly appeal to posers.

When did this become about popularity or sales? You're seemingly dodging the biggest issue here; the quality of the music. I don't like Dimmu Borgir (whom I weren't referring to in that post, anyway) or Cradle of Filth because their music strikes me as completely soulless, superficial, sugar-coated cheese. I don't care about popularity in the slightest bit. Hell, Slayer is one of my favourite bands.

I agree with your point about contemporary OSDM and that is exactly why I like very little of it. I could count the amount of bands I like on one hand.

I don't really know what you're trying to get at here, because what you've said certainly doesn't apply to me.

 

[DarkBliss]

PArtially I'm just venting or trying to justrify my disposition towards Dimmu if only due to the nostalgic value of some of their works. Regardless, that by itself is not very interesting since it hinges on subjectivity alone.
What I'm trying to get at is that often it seems to me as though the aesthetics of many bands that are praised in the undeground overlap with the popular acts, yet it's become trendy to praise the underdog while dismissing the more well-known band for seemingly no reason.

Also, soulless is a fairly loaded and subjective term, to be honest. I, for instance find Atheist pretty soulless. Certainly, more of a musicians' band appealing more to prog fans and related fanbases.
Some examples of favoritism:
Atheist vs. Death
Necrophagist and Meshuggah vs. Gorguts
Marduk vs. Antaeus
etc.
I can't help but feel that some of us have become shackled by these double standards, rationalizing our relative narrow-mindedness and preferences by dubiously defined terms such as artistry.

 

[challenge_everything]

I agree about Atheist being soulless.

And speaking of The Chasm, Farseeing... strikes me more and more as a flat-out masterpiece.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Also, soulless is a fairly loaded and subjective term

Like every term relating to judgment of art.

 

[Dak]

I just want to say I am impressed on the rebirth of a thread considered dead.

 

[Mort Divine]

I'm still waiting to hear how The Chasm is full of technical excess, because going "oh lol they have wank parts too" just completely doesn't justify such a statement in my mind.

The one thing I've always felt about them is that despite the complexity of their work they've always been completely tasteful about everything.

Long sprawling instrumental sections =/= wank

 

[sevag00]

Ignore the elitist's opinion. Let him rot in his own stupidness.

@DarkBliss

 

[DarkBliss]

I'm still waiting to hear how The Chasm is full of technical excess, because going "oh lol they have wank parts too" just completely doesn't justify such a statement in my mind.

The one thing I've always felt about them is that despite the complexity of their work they've always been completely tasteful about everything.

Long sprawling instrumental sections =/= wank

I'll spare you my essays and say that I dislike the guitar tone.As simple as that.

Anyhow, Atheist would've been as great as Cadaver, imo had they utilized less breakdowns and fluent ambient drumming. Cadaver's music is also full of twists and turns but the production is very understated by comparison; all the instruments on ...In Pains including the vocals are firmly ingrained in the rhythm section of the album, which not true of Atheist. Technically, Atheist's riffs are awesome but the compositions are shaky.