Controversial opinions on metal

[damnromulans]

I also dont understand how anyone can actually enjoy drone.

Yeah. Or Pokemon. I understand the appeal of D&D and Magic etc and it is okay for adults to like that, but seriously what is with all you supposed badasses loving Pikachu and what's the other one Squirtle?

I also hate Kirk Hammett's guitar playing.

 

[Episteme]

I watched Sailor Moon when I was like 8. For like 3 episodes. It was a children's show.

Also I am not referring to the show when it comes to Pokemons

No.

Sailormoon has alot of elements that aren't exactly meant for kids. It's funny because I'm pretty sure the show was targeted towards teens in Japan and in English speaking countries, the dubbed version changed alot of the inter character relationships to make it more suitable for children. tbh, Sailormoon and DBZ are pretty bad as well. I'd rather watch Rurouni Kenshin, Evangelion etc. The Pokemon game and anime suck.

Pretty much bordering on blasphemy right there, besides being incorrect. While there is plenty of wank going on, I don't know where you get the poorly structured part.

I find alot of transitions in TSOP to be not as smooth as on the other albums. There are too many start-stop sections that interrupt the flow of the song. The odd-time signature switches also seem to sound alot more forced and there's an excessive use of the arpeggiated sus 2 chord. It seems that Schuldiner was also experimenting with major key melodies, which isn't bad at all, but it sounds a little forced especially when paired with the odd time signatures.

Have I overanalysed it?

I like Kirk Hammet's soloing in the slower songs, but his guitar playing in the faster songs is shit. My other guitarist is a huge Metallica fanboy, I give him shit all the time for it.

 

[Dak]

Saying something sounds "forced" seems pretty subjective to me, at least in this case. Also, I like stop/starts in more technical music, as do others.

 

[Episteme]

I don't mind the use of start-stops ESPECIALLY in technical music, and Death's previous works did have some start-stop sections but it never sounded as abrupt as it did in TSOP. Especially with somewhat "random" tapping/sweep picking sections that seem to just be there for the sake of showcasing technical ability.

I agree that "forced" is subjective, to each his own. That said, I really like some of the riffs on the album along with some really well done transposition. Schuldiner was definitely experimenting with TSOP. I just don't think the album flows as well as say, Human, ITP or Symbolic. I have a similar problem with Control Denied's album, only it flows slightly better and I hate the clean vocals.

 

[DarkBliss]

It's not the stop-starts that bother me, it's the fact that they're in-your-face due to the overproduction.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

I'll chime in on several of the topics over the past 2 pages:
Pokemon video games are OK, but as for the card games, M:TG owns the shit out of Pokemon. The Pokemon cartoon is horrible, though I did laugh until I almost ruptured my lungs while watching Pokemon after I ate 3 hits of acid.
I'm actually not a frequent listener of Death, though I do agree that TSOP suffers from overt wankery.
Metallica's black album was basically the only thing I listened to while I was in 7th - 8th grade, so I love that album for mostly nostalgic reasons. I would have to insist that Hetfield's vocals didn't become irritating until Load, and they haven't improved at all since, not even on Death Magnetic.
Also @ Butt and toenail: Shut the fuck up about Slipknot already!

 

[no country for old wainds]

i got up to fuschia in fire red the other week then i was like this is boring and stopped

digimon show was better than pokemon show btw. unorthodox opinion but no less correct for that.

i also like the first PS monster rancher game more than the pokemon games but the cartoon was so fkin bad jesus

 

[Satanstoenail]

Sigh. Apparently it's epic quote-a-thon time.

It's pretty self-explanatory? There is rock with groove (Down for example, Slipknot) and there is rock without (AC/DC, 80s glam, shit like that).

So what are Slipknot now? Groove Rock? Are you kidding me? And I thought Down were Sludge Metal/Stoner Rock? They seem like a strange band to try to lump in with Slipknot.

Pantera IS thrash. It is arguable for LOG but I see thrash elements. But even if they didn't, that doesn't change the fact that LOG is metalcore (which IS a genre of metal).

Oh, Pantera IS thrash? Because you say so? So they aren't Groove Metal anymore? Or is it that you don't consider Groove Metal to be Metal either?

I am not going to comment on a band who's sole track I've heard is a cover.

Fair enough, they're also 90's metal/nu-metal/groove metal. I'm sure there have probably been debates about whether they're worthy as well.

I fail to see how I've been talking in absolutes.

"Pantera IS thrash"
"Slipknot is fucking rock with groove. With the OCCASIONAL metal element."
"Those are not metal riffs, neither in composition nor atmosphere."
"Their RIFFS, were 90% ROCK-BASED. They are a ROCK band with METAL influences. Not the other way around."

As for your "points":

[*]Having slight metal influences does not make you metal.

I agree, I certainly wouldn't try and argue that Faith No More or Dub Trio for example are metal bands, even though they both have considerable metal influence and metal passages within songs. However all the Slipknot I've heard has much more than "slight" metal influence in it, all though I'm not sure how watered down that has become with time. As far as the earlier stuff goes though I hear death metal, grindcore, thrash metal and groove metal in there with all the rest of the influences. Couple that with the metal guitar sound, drum sound, aggressive vocals and metal image (albeit metal image for 13 year olds), and I don't see how you can can that "slight metal influence".

[*]Slipknot's riffs are not metal in either composition or atmosphere.

That's not a point, that's you stating a generalised opinion.

[*]What sets them apart from bands like Pantera and Lamb of God, is that they are actually BASED in metal, and actually reside in established metal genres. Thrash and metalcore respectively.

See above.

[*]Having one "metal" song in your discography doesn't make you metal either, so pointing out one song is pointless as a counter-argument.

We've been through that. I told you I could've posted many songs. Would you like me to post a bunch of youtube links? I'd prefer not to, considering you tried to argue the song I did post was rock anyway. What would be the point?

And I've done the same. The fact that I'm doing it in a semi-arrogant manner, does not make my points any less valid.

Well probably not, because most of your "points" aren't really very valid to begin with.

Except... I have not made obvious logical fallacies such as calling out the arguer rather than the argument itself, constantly dodging and evading, etc.

Oh fuck off. I called you out once, I've spent the rest of the time calling out and trying to work out what exactly your "argument" is. As I've already stated, all you do is bark opinions at me as if they're fact. That's not debating.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Also @ Butt and toenail: Shut the fuck up about Slipknot already!

I think I'm done now.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

Thank you, and you won that argument IMO.

 

[Krow]

Down is metal as fuck... not some 'rock with groove' bullshit.

 

[damnromulans]

WHAT DOES GROOVE MEAN

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Down isn't a metal band on III. That's a hard rock album at most. Sounds more like Audioslave or Soundgarden than any metal band I've ever heard. Good album tho.

As for what groove means.... I can't fuckin' explain it but at least it's better than using "core" for everything. Frankly I've never heard the slightest punk influence in Lamb of God, for example. Whatever these bands are, however extensively impure or unmetal they are, that doesn't make them hardcore punk in the least. Despised Icon has punk influences... Lamb of God, none. They're as punk as they are death metal. Show Lamb of God to every bonafide punk rocker in the world and zero of them will say "Aw yeah man they sound like Bad Brains! Punk as fuck!" Lamb of God has breakdowns... yeah, so do Slayer, Pantera, and any number of Lamb Of God's favorite bands.

 

[DarkBliss]

Groove is great in understated form.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

Groove was actually used to describe blues, jazz, and funk music in the past. I've never really understood what it ever had to do with metal.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

I think it's an idea similar to the "death/black/etc 'n' roll" concept, but not as kvlt. I believe it was coined in reference to Pantera's obsession with southern rock, though I could be wrong.

 

[DarkBliss]

Well, some metal is heavily influenced by jazz, so it also has groove.

 

[DarkBliss]

I love how most of your negative reviews are things like "too long", "too many notes", or "I don't like the production". You're such a tool.

Thanks.What the hell do you want to me to write-a scholarly essay? Also, don't blame me-blame my attention span.
And I don't think I've ever used "too many notes" in a review.

Cyth is hilarious as usual in asserting his superiority and singular understanding of music.: I'm semi-kidding, man
I don't rate for the approval of others; this is not a popularity contest and never has been.

 

[-CC-]

I applaud Satanstoenail for his great rebuttal..but you could've just told him to go play with his Pikachu dolls and it would have been more effective in shutting him up!

 

[Dak]

I don't mind the use of start-stops ESPECIALLY in technical music, and Death's previous works did have some start-stop sections but it never sounded as abrupt as it did in TSOP. Especially with somewhat "random" tapping/sweep picking sections that seem to just be there for the sake of showcasing technical ability.

I agree that "forced" is subjective, to each his own. That said, I really like some of the riffs on the album along with some really well done transposition. Schuldiner was definitely experimenting with TSOP. I just don't think the album flows as well as say, Human, ITP or Symbolic. I have a similar problem with Control Denied's album, only it flows slightly better and I hate the clean vocals.

I will agree that Symbolic is much more cohesive than TSoP, but Human and ITP have a lack of "individual moments" for lack of a better way to put it.

The Control Denied album is unlistenable thanks to the vocals if nothing else.

@What is groove:

It's so easy to point out bands that have the groove style but I don't know what "it" is by definition. Bands with obvious groove:
Illdisposed, newer Lamb of God.