Controversial opinions on metal

[King Richard]

I applaud Satanstoenail for his great rebuttal..but you could've just told him to go play with his Pikachu dolls and it would have been more effective in shutting him up!

I prefer "go pound sand."

 

[Badbird]

Groove was actually used to describe blues, jazz, and funk music in the past. I've never really understood what it ever had to do with metal.

Groove metal is thrash metal but slower and shiity

 

[DarkBliss]

I prefer "go pound sand."

I prefer neither.Cyber-bullying is overrated, and doesn't accomplish anything really, but it's fun at times to laugh at people trying to offend you, or at others coming up with ridiculous retorts to match those of their offenders.
The more the merrier, isn't it? Supersize everything.

A and B having a word duel:

A: eat plagued roaches and die.

B:For your information, Mr. half-witted oompa loompa, roaches are a rich source of protein. I'd take roaches over your mother's quiche any day. I mean, who eats quiche for breakfast, lunch and dinner? I bet your mother smears it with cow diarrhea when she's out of mustard.

A:You're such an incoherent twat. Who puts mustard on quiche?

B:Your mother does. Cos she's a champion of stealth and spontaneous menstruation when it comes to eavesdropping on slumber parties packed with preteen girls, and unsurprisingly, a huge fan of Dillinger Escape Plan's Calculating Infinity.

A:Say, has your head been used as a ping-pong ball during one of your parent's drunken rages, or does your dentist hate you so much that during your last treatment he became so bored with your non-stop nonsense, coming through all that cotton that was shoved in your deformed piehole that he decided to be artistic and drilled a hole in your head instead, in an attempt to cease your communication with the outside world completely.
Calculating Infinity? Bah, more like calculating the number of brain cells I've lost while reading your posts.


And on it goes...

 

[King Richard]

/Ozzed

 

[DEATH_TO_THE_FALSE]

Supersize everything.

Thats the American way right there.

 

[no country for old wainds]

this thread SUCKS oh my fucking god

 

[HamburgerBoy]

WHAT DOES GROOVE MEAN

Mid-tempo thrash with a modern guitar tone and/or down-tuning.

 

[Cythraul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOi-ggKl530

Those are barely metal riffs, or at least there's little to nothing about those riffs that distinguishes them from what you would find in mid/late 90s hardcore of the Victory records variety, at least to these ears. Then again, it's true that those bands' riffing style owes a lot to early 90s groove metal, e.g. Machine Head, but that's not saying a whole lot. The riffing in the song you posted is barely anything more than a handmaiden to the rhythm section and it's serving little more than a rhythmic function independently of that. I've heard other Slipknot songs where this is the case as well. I would say that the exact opposite is the case with virtually everything that is uncontroversially metal, even groove metal. Groove metal, to the extent that it's uncontroversially metal, has always been far more riff oriented than what I'm hearing in the song above. The guitar riff has always been the primary driving element in metal songwriting, to the point that the rhythm section takes a subordinate role. That is clearly not the case in the song above. Even with stuff like Atheist, where the rhythm section plays a far more salient role than most metal, the relation between the guitar work and rhythm section is nothing like the way it is in that Slipknot song. Notice how the guitar work in the following song has a far more salient role than it does in that Slipknot song:



Also, the drum work in the song you posted reminds me more of Aphex Twin than any metal I've ever heard.



So far it's not clear to me how Slipknot is obviously a metal band. Let's see what else you have to say about the matter:

metal guitar sound

What exactly is uniquely metal about their guitar sound? That it's heavily distorted?

drum sound

Explain what's uniquely metal about their drum sound or how it contributes in any significant way to their purported metalness.

aggressive vocals

This makes no difference whatsoever. Plenty of non-metal genres feature aggressive vocals.

metal image (albeit metal image for 13 year olds)

I don't see what's metal about their image. Is it that they're pissed off and angsty? That's clearly not sufficient. Are you referring to their visual appearance? I don't see how I couldn't just think of it as a shock rock aesthetic.

 

[WCannibal]

It's not the stop-starts that bother me, it's the fact that they're in-your-face due to the overproduction.

Burzum's overproduced too, AMIRITE?

 

[DarkBliss]

No, but this isn't my only criterion for judging music. I just don't like Burzum. I'm not gonna write an essay about that. It's not to be controversial, or whatever. Maybe you should expand your definition of others people's opinions and not be tool about that.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Fuck, Cythraul, where were you a week ago when I replied to your other post regarding this? Shagging your old lady somewhere when there was important internet business to attend to? I'm so over talking about Slipknot it's not funny. But anyway...

Those are barely metal riffs, or at least there's little to nothing about those riffs that distinguishes them from what you would find in mid/late 90s hardcore of the Victory records variety, at least to these ears. Then again, it's true that those bands' riffing style owes a lot to early 90s groove metal, e.g. Machine Head, but that's not saying a whole lot. The riffing in the song you posted is barely anything more than a handmaiden to the rhythm section and it's serving little more than a rhythmic function independently of that. I've heard other Slipknot songs where this is the case as well. I would say that the exact opposite is the case with virtually everything that is uncontroversially metal, even groove metal. Groove metal, to the extent that it's uncontroversially metal, has always been far more riff oriented than what I'm hearing in the song above. The guitar riff has always been the primary driving element in metal songwriting, to the point that the rhythm section takes a subordinate role. That is clearly not the case in the song above. Even with stuff like Atheist, where the rhythm section plays a far more salient role than most metal, the relation between the guitar work and rhythm section is nothing like the way it is in that Slipknot song.

I'm still interested to know what you think their sound is rooted in, if not metal. Hardcore? I'd argue that their general aesthetic isn't hardcore in the slightest. I can hear influences from a large variety of stuff, but I think metal is the overwhelming leader. I admit the riffing in that track (and most of the other material I’ve heard from them) is very basic, lots of downtuned semi-tone up/down action, nothing particularly memorable, but the aesthetic is still metal imo. It’s like they’ve taken the most basic aspects from a lot of death metal riffs and used them over and over ad nauseam. I don't think of Slipknot as being a Groove Metal band, or any one particular sub-genre of metal, to me they seem like a mish-mash of metal styles all put together with the other non-metal influences in their sound. Does this make them ineligable to be called a metal band? Also re. the track I posted, I just picked it because it was the most aggressive track I could find on that album. Try this track as another example:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVw_H7CX1uo&feature=related[/ame]

Notice how the guitar work in the following song has a far more salient role than it does in that Slipknot song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ZWGSfi9-c

Yep, for sure. Maybe I was misguided comparing those bands to Slipknot, maybe Slipknot are less metal than those bands because they use elements from more non-metal styles in their sound than those bands. But I don’t see how you can argue that they are working from anything other than a metal base.

Also, the drum work in the song you posted reminds me more of Aphex Twin than any metal I've ever heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az_7U0-cK0

I'm not going to deny for a second that they are probably inspired to an extent by electronic music and that the beat you're referring to may well be inspired by breakbeat or drum & bass, but again I don't see that as the overwhelming factor in their sound. If a metal band uses a beat that is not commonly used in metal, does that make them not a metal band?

What exactly is uniquely metal about their guitar sound? That it's heavily distorted?

No, the fact that it is very much a metal guitar sound, albeit a more modern one. It sounds like the standard Peavy 5150 sound that pretty much every popular metal band had at the time, and that still continues to be popular today. Punk & hardcore bands generally use more vintage tones or less 'metallic' distortion.

Explain what's uniquely metal about their drum sound or how it contributes in any significant way to their purported metalness.

I think his playing style is very much a modern metal style, he uses thrash beats, blast beats on occasion, and a lot of double kick. The sound of the kick drum (scooped mids and lots of click, made popular by Lars Ulrich on AJFA) is very much unique to more modern metal bands. The drum production in general sounds very metal to me.

This makes no difference whatsoever. Plenty of non-metal genres feature aggressive vocals.

True, but given the context combined with the other traits I've mentioned I think they are definitely a factor. I think he’s taken the influence for the vocals (his main 'barked' vocal) from death & thrash metal, and he uses death growls occasionally.

I don't see what's metal about their image. Is it that they're pissed off and angsty? That's clearly not sufficient. Are you referring to their visual appearance? I don't see how I couldn't just think of it as a shock rock aesthetic.

Again, the combination of their image & lyrics with the other traits I've mentioned makes them a factor imo. The lyrics are your typical "war, hate, kill, fuck everything" toughguy fodder which take influence from bands like Pantera. Plus their on stage presence involves much metal posturing, head banging etc.

 

[Cythraul]

*sigh* I actually really dislike these kinds of 'it's metal/it's not metal' arguments. You make some good points there. I have little patience to go on with this. How about this: Since you conceded my point about the comparison between Slipknot and groove metal like Machine Head, I'll concede that maybe Slipknot is a metal band but that they are on the periphery of what counts as metal. Cool?

 

[Satanstoenail]

Cool.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

What about Ozzy? I say he's not metal. What do you think?

I don't mind at all when bands like Slipknot are excluded from Metal. I agree that they're on the edge and could go either way. But it irks me when new bands which have stronger connections to metal are excluded while rock bands from metal's formative era are included. Seems like ageism to me. If rock bands like Ozzy and Def Leppard can be considered metal, then every nu metal and metalcore and mallcore artist is also metal.

 

[Krow]

Ozzy's solo work definitely isnt metal, and the new single he released sounds like he's singing over a nickelback song.

 

[Shipwreck]

One person's favorite album is someone else's definition of faggotry.

 

[mutantllama]

Ozzy is metal.

 

[Badbird]

Ozzy's solo work definitely isnt metal

I would agree for the most part. Ozzy's solo music is usually hard rock.

 

[Episteme]

This is something that might spark discussion.

Dark Tranquillity is probably one of the better "Gothenburg" bands. I haven't heard their new one, but I really like Fiction, Character and Damage Done. Their older discography is also pretty darn good.

 

[The Butt]

Ozzy's solo work definitely isnt metal, and the new single he released sounds like he's singing over a nickelback song.

First three albums are awesome heavy metal, foo'.