Controversial opinions on metal

[ProphetofHatred]

He wasn't trying to use them as examples of good metalcore, just the whiney bullshit that scene kids listen to while they skip around in their skinny jeans pretending to be hardcore.

 

[blacktape]

I think The Butt coined it perfectly when he mentioned Asking Alexandria because they would be the definition of a core band, but...wouldn't it just be easier to call them 'hard rock?' Of all the genre names that get thrown around, I never see 'hard rock' or simply 'rock' used anymore. It just seem obvious if a band is influenced by another related part of music that it would be obvious in the music. People can hear, so why distinguish? I'd expect numerous rock/hard rock bands to be influenced by metal just like there is metal influenced by completely different types of music. Sometimes I don't understand all this genre categorization shit.

Just because its called as such, doesnt make it so.

Metal-influenced hardcore. Being influenced by a genre does not inherently make something that genre.

There are core bands that are metal, but that is because they are more metal than core. Like Lamb of God, or Mastodon.

Surely you wouldnt tell me these are metal?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

while they skip around in their skinny jeans pretending to be hardcore.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I dont see any traces of core in Mastodon...

And those are horrible examples of metalcore. I personally wouldnt even label them as such.

Here are a few better examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx8Dc4C7S1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je-3J6xn4Wg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ4ZS_eE5t4

I think those guys have tried to distance themselves from Killswitch knockoffs by using the term "metallic hardcore". Just to emphasize the old hardcore punk roots.

 

[J.]

7 Angels 7 Plagues, Kiss It Goodbye, Deadguy

metalcore, hardcore, thrashcore, whatever. these three bands can put many so called metal bands to shame.

quit trying to put a tag on music. actually listening to it does wonders

 

[KafkaX]

Fuckkkkk!

Totally forgot about 7 Angels 7 plagues! Blast from the past right there!

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Tech-thrash is my personal preference, but there is plenty of good/solid straight-forward stuff too. The worst vanilla stuff is usually anything influenced by Anthrax or Practice-era Testament, ultra-safe socially-conscious bullshit thrash.

Nocturnus is better than Slayer.

Nocturnus is kinda lame tbh. The Key is decent, but way overrated. Browning is a boring drummer, the tech bits are very underdeveloped compared to tech-thrash of three years past, and the keyboards are more of a gimmick than anything actually interesting. Thresholds is just bad, and aside from the first song it's not even a death metal album. It's basically any moderately-tech thrash album circa 1989, but with soothing bubbling and nature noises probably yanked from their favorite screensaver overlain, and a disgusting Burns production. I still need to hear their EP without Browning though.

EDIT: I should probably check out 7 Angels 7 Plagues. I never would just hearing that name, but Kiss It Goodbye and Deadguy are good stuff.

Wait, since when are... Lamb of God even referred to as core?

They sound metal to me, surely not good metal but my opinion on them doesn't change anything.

Last I checked hardcore music INFLUENCED by metal is labeled metallic hardcore, I may be mistaken.

They have breakdowns, man. And they're tuffguy bros. Tuffguy bros listen to Lamb of God. Therefore, Lamb of God HAS to be core.

 

[blacktape]

You lost me at "The Key is decent but way overrated," because the point was that I compared them to Slayer, one of the most overrated bands of all time, while Nocturnus well...isn't. Because they're not well-known enough to be really rated in either direction. Now, consider why I compared Nocturnus to Slayer and then come back and tell me how or why Slayer doesn't suck.

...Nocturnus is kinda lame tbh. The Key is decent, but way overrated. Browning is a boring drummer, the tech bits are very underdeveloped compared to tech-thrash of three years past, and the keyboards are more of a gimmick than anything actually interesting. Thresholds is just bad, and aside from the first song it's not even a death metal album. It's basically any moderately-tech thrash album circa 1989, but with soothing bubbling and nature noises probably yanked from their favorite screensaver overlain, and a disgusting Burns production. I still need to hear their EP without Browning though.

 

[ProphetofHatred]

They pioneered thrash and influenced more thrash/death metal bands than you can possible name.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yep. Show No Mercy was basically the first metal album to actually use early death metal riffing, and through the first three albums they held the line among the most intense and important bands in extreme metal.

Plenty of people know Nocturnus, btw. Nearly everyone jizzes themselves to The Key, even though they shouldn't.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I wouldn't even fucking compare nocturnus to Slayer.

I love Show No Mercy, but where the fuck on it do you hear death metal riffing? Unless you mean that plenty of early death metal was basically built on thrash metal riffs .. to which I'd agree with.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The main Fight Till Death riff and brief portions of Black Magic ("Fight to resist the evil inside...") have all the essentials of a death metal riff, at least. I mean, we can call them thrash riffs, but it would mean admitting that a lot of early death metal was built on thrash riffs (which I am more than willing to do, but most can't accept that Atheist, Nocturnus, or Pestilence are just as much thrash bands as they are death).

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I hear no death metal *riffing on SNM at all.

A lot of early death metal was built on thrash riffs, there is no way anyone can deny that fact. The first Athesit and Pestilence albums are both pretty heavy on thrash, so were the first few Death and Morbid Angel albums, but to say those bands are just as much thrash as they are death because of one or two albums early on in their careers is going a bit too far.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Fight Till Death contains the quintessential death/thrash tremolo-picked riff (although of course they'd develop it further, like on Hardening of the Arteries), which is basically the full extent of the death metal in Atheist's sound anyways (aside from a very brief blast beat section in On They Slay). As much as I love Unquestionable Presence, nearly all the rhythmic coolness comes from Choy and Flynn. The predominant riffing style is mid-80's-typical death/thrash, just with a ton of added harmony. tbh, the more I listen to Atheist the more I realize that Piece of Time is in fact the closest to death metal of the first three.

 

[blacktape]

If you consider pioneering to mean 'becoming popular' then sure. But they didn't pioneer anything, they're just the ones who caught a break.

Comparing Slayer and Metallica and Venom is like comparing three different important bands in their own right. Venom are the pioneers. What Slayer did was set up a band with a guitarist who has solos that continue sound pretty much the same as they did on Show No Mercy, and have bands come in and try to compete with Kerry King as being the lofty solo guitarist. Metallica had a better solos in some respect, but they were of a different sound and they were the start to another part of metal. The competitive aspect of it is evident why Metallica and Slayer have been in competition since their bands first started, and that can be heard throughout their discographies. So neither one of them were 'pioneers' in that respect. The reason I say that Nocturnus is better than Slayer is because they did what Slayer was trying to do, better than they did if by anything, by Nocturnus' lead guitarist simply being better than Kerry King's solos. Nocturnus made a statement with their two albums as a response to Slayer. Kerry King isn't that great of a guitarist. So really, the only reason Slayer is an influence is due to their popularity and not due to their musicianship.

They pioneered thrash and influenced more thrash/death metal bands than you can possible name.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You seem to care a lot about solos when they aren't really a focal point of either Metallica or Slayer. The idea that the two bands spent their early careers in competition is laughable as well. Early on Slayer was undoubtedly influenced by Metallica but by late 1983 they were already on different courses. Venom are pioneers, but Slayer was an important next step in developing extreme metal. Nocturnus just mashed Floridian OSDM, Coroner riffs, and keyboards together.

 

[The Butt]

Nocturnus is great but saying they are better than Slayer is actually really fucking gay.

 

[ProphetofHatred]

Nocturnus is great but saying they are better than Slayer is actually really fucking gay.

Thank's for the highly intellectual contribution to this argument revolving egoistical bullshitters and ignorant kids who think they know more about metal than the majority, when the only information they have obtained has been from reading Wikipedia articles pertaining to these bands/sub-genres.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I sincerely hope that I fall into the egoistical bullshitter category.

 

[ProphetofHatred]

I sincerely hope that I fall into the egoistical bullshitter category.

You can figure that out yourself, you're a big boy right?