Controversial opinions on metal

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah, some of these riffs are super fucking bizarre, a little bit of that proto-Master's Hammer thing that Living Death has going on for them too, relatively non-aggressive for thrash but oddly melodic and sad sounding at times, the kind of thing I wish black metal turned into. The nice thing about ripping off a band that avoids basic bitch thrash riffing is that it still sounds more original than 90% of other stuff out there. I still think you should relisten to early Destruction if you can't hear some of that same kind of riffing though, I'm hearing Eternal Devastation (my all-time favorite album riff-wise) in this all over the place.

 

[CiG]

Oh I admit that they are like a Destruction clone band for sure, I totally hear it. But it's the addition of those aforementioned elements like the bizarreness and weirdness that really clicks with me over the other German thrash bands.

Funny you should mention black metal because I always personally felt like Necronomicon's debut especially gave off this feeling of black metal, that primitive, sloppy and amateurish evil felt on Bathory's first maybe?

 

[Krow]

Agent Orange is godly as fuck. One of the best big-name thrash metal albums of the 80s.

 

[EspaDa]

^ You should have included the date of that post. I love people who change their opinions.

 

[The Ozzman]

^ You should have included the date of that post. I love people who change their opinions.

Krow fixed the quote for his liking.

 

[Krow]

^ You should have included the date of that post. I love people who change their opinions.

I was just being a dick and editing his quote.

 

[EspaDa]

Eh, I thought he was contradictory as fuck.

 

[CiG]

You thought wrong.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Agent Orange is the best Sodom album I've heard and I don't really care if the opening 30 seconds sounds like Sacred Reich.

 

[no country for old wainds]

I rate Destruction's EP and debut way above anything else, except In the Sign of Evil which is really close. Expurse of Sodomy is probably the next best thing by Sodom.

Seeing as we're talking about old Teutonic shit I'll take the opportunity to say Iron Angel's Hellish Crossfire kills and is near perfect speed metal.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Agent Orange is the best Sodom album I've heard and I don't really care if the opening 30 seconds sounds like Sacred Reich.

The opening 30 seconds are stolen from Megadeth. It's the main riff that comes right out of Death Squad.

Eh, I thought he was contradictory as fuck.

I've always hated Agent Orange. You could find posts of mine from a decade ago citing it (along with Arise, Among the Living, Coma of Souls, The Human Factor, and Under the Influence) as why I used to think I hated thrash metal, because those were my starting albums from those respective bands. They define pedestrian and easy-going thrash metal, all bands selling out to a more streamlined approach in light of Metallica's success. That was my bad for asking people for good, accessible starting points; I took the opposite approach to Destruction and immediately fell in love with Cracked Brain, an amazing and intricate album that goes over the heads of plebeian Sodom fans. For the most part, I prefer the mid/late-90s sellout material from those bands over their late 80s/early 90s material.

 

[Krow]

I feel like youre saying these bands were selling out when in reality they were just getting established and better production qualities from the labels they were selling albums for. People that like old extreme metal like the production to be fairly bad for the most part and theyll call it "perfect for the material" or say they wont buy a remaster because they ruined the sound or some bullshit.

Now its old school trendy to bitch about' loudness' wars and brickwalled sound. I've seen people post that shit, be proven wrong by others with computer programs and still insist...

Also, standard I dont care or even like complexity in metal comment.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Nah, it doesn't have much to do with production. I think Agent Orange has excellent production. I even think so-called "Sneap sound" sounds good, and that it's the perfect kind of production for albums like Tempo of the Damned. Those bands previously mentioned changed a lot more than production. Compare the super fast death/thrash of Bestial Devastation with the chugalugchug of Arise, or how Sodom went from actually preempting Slayer's most intense songs (the general progression of Blasphemer does about the same thing as Chemical Warfare for example) to all the years-behind shit on Agent Orange and Better Off Dead. If not a deliberate sell-out, then it was bands getting lazy.

 

[Phylactery]

I know we were talking about thrash but you brought up production. Production is definitely a huge part of the reason why I enjoy some albums, but it's obviously not the only criteria.

Moondark's The Shadowpath is a good example.



HamburgerBoy probably finds this boring and predictable, but for me I just love the general sound of this. It all melds into a dark and morbid atmosphere and the production is a huge part of that.

Also compare:


to:



To see the difference production can make to the same song. First one sounds far more ethereal and laid back to me.

 

[The Ozzman]

See The Human Factor is the 2nd best Metal Church album

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Yeah, i remember HBB trashing Agent Orange way back when i first joined. It's no Persecution Mania, but its def one of their top albums.

 

[CiG]

It's no Persecution Mania, but its def one of their top albums.

You like Persecution Mania too? Fuck yeah.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

... yes, my favorite album from one of my favorite bands. I was just listening to it a few days ago, i give it a spin at least once every other week or so.

 

[CiG]

... yes, my favorite album from one of my favorite bands. I was just listening to it a few days ago, i give it a spin at least once every other week or so.

Did you buy the I Hate Records reissue?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Nope, still have my old disc.