Controversial opinions on metal

[Phylactery]

I mentioned Bathory because he released his first album before Celtic Frosts first ep and while the Bathory Debut may not be pure black metal it sounds more like the standard black metal than Celtic Frost does imo.

This might be true, but Celtic Frost's earliest recordings were under the name Hellhammer, and they precede Bathory's earliest release. They're also much dirtier and more extreme than Celtic Frost's early work.

I think it's fair to say that Bathory's Under the Sign of the Black Mark was the biggest influence on the Norwegian scene, though.

 

[MrTagoMago]

This might be true, but Celtic Frost's earliest recordings were under the name Hellhammer, and they precede Bathory's earliest release. They're also much dirtier and more extreme than Celtic Frost's early work.

I think it's fair to say that Bathory's Under the Sign of the Black Mark was the biggest influence on the Norwegian scene, though.

I know that I was just going based on the Celtic frost name since it's been too long since I actually listened to Hellhammer. I would say that even though I love Bathory and don't care for the second wave stuff the second wave Black metal bands certainly seem to take more from Bathory.

Id say rather than one band inventing black metal it was an evolutionary process but I think Bathory in my personal opinion was the first to have what I'd call the standard black metal sound especially when he made Under the sign.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Daily reminder that the first two Bathory albums have almost nothing in common with black metal outside of aesthetic. They're also shit.

 

[Internally Deformed]

Daily reminder that the first two Bathory albums have almost nothing in common with black metal outside of aesthetic.

Yesish.

They're also shit.

No.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Daily reminder that the first two Bathory albums have almost nothing in common with black metal outside of aesthetic. They're also shit.

I disagree on everything you just said.

 

[Internally Deformed]

So many killer riffs on the first Bathory album. It's like blackened speed metal. Also you can't tell how bad Quorthorn's vocals really are before the Viking metal era.

 

[MrTagoMago]

I'm going to get a ton of flack for this but Bathory is the best black metal band period. They are also better than any thrash band (except maybe Voivod but their best material was more prog).

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Raise the Dead is a cool song. Most of the others are bleh at best.

I'm undecided between BFD or Requiem being the best Bathory album.

 

[MrTagoMago]

So many killer riffs on the first Bathory album. It's like blackened speed metal. Also you can't tell how bad Quorthorn's vocals really are before the Viking metal era.

Hes better as a harsh vocalist than a clean one but I find something charming about how ugly he sounds on the Viking albums. His voice gives the music a certain authenticity to me.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Raise the Dead is a cool song. Most of the others are bleh at best.

I'm undecided between BFD or Requiem being the best Bathory album.

Requiem? Really?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah, it's a solid thrash album, nothing amazing but pretty decent really. Much better than all his bloated Manowar clonery.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Yeah, it's a solid thrash album, nothing amazing but pretty decent really. Much better than all his bloated Manowar clonery.

Oh ok you're another one of those who thinks Bathory sounds like Manohar for some reason.

 

[Phylactery]

"For some reason"? It's pretty fucking obvious that mid-period Bathory especially was heavily influenced by Manowar.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Did you guys know that this



Sounds exactly the same as this?

 

[MrTagoMago]

"For some reason"? It's pretty fucking obvious that mid-period Bathory especially was heavily influenced by Manowar.

Influenced by ofcourse but they hardly sound like the same band.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Wrong Manowar song bro, try this one instead:

 

[MrTagoMago]

Wrong Manowar song bro, try this one instead:

I can hear where Bathory was influenced but again they don't sound like the same band Bathory having uglier less clean vocals and a much heavier sound. Manowar is mmore poppy and Bathory sounds dirtier. Hell by your standards Candlemass is just a Black Sabbath clone and Metallica were Motorhead clones.

Being influenced and deriving part of your sound from another artis isn't a bad thing you know.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Viking Bathory and stuff like "Enter the Eternal Fire" were definitely influenced by early Manowar. That doesn't mean that they sound exactly like Manowar, but it's very noticeable.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Viking Bathory and stuff like "Enter the Eternal Fire" were definitely influenced by early Manowar. That doesn't mean that they sound exactly like Manowar, but it's very noticeable.

That's not a bad thing though. I don't hear people criticizing every doom metal band who sounds like Sabbath for being clones.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

That's not a bad thing though. I don't hear people criticizing every doom metal band who sounds like Sabbath for being clones.

I'm not criticizing Bathory when I say that.

If I was going to be critical of Bathory, I would probably direct it at Quorthon's integrity since he was obviously straight up lying when he said that he wasn't influenced by Venom and Manowar.