Controversial opinions on metal

[HamburgerBoy]

Part of how reality works is that someone's perception doesn't invalidate something that's true from being true, so no. That literally makes no sense at all.

But you're providing no objective evidence that Quorthon's vocal style (for example; this could apply to anything) did change from the S/T to BFD. You're providing your own perception and passing that off as objective reality. At the very least you would have to quantify and measure certain characteristics about his vocal style, but even that is dependent on the subjectivity of the instrument used to measure said characteristics, as well as the person making judgment over the degree of change in vocal style considered to be significant.

 

[MrTagoMago]

While I agree that quality of art is subjective I do understand where Internally Deformed is coming from and is the main reason I think it is important to debate about art and dissect it. I mean imagine if this band came up with this unique piece of that required incredible skill to make and you just absolutely loved it, but no one paid attention to it while you had this other artists who records himself shitting on the toilet and becomes super popular and everyone loves him thinking he's a musical genius of some sort and he's getting all kinds of fame and money. That was a crude way of putting it but it would piss you off no?

 

[Internally Deformed]

 

[Phylactery]

But you're providing no objective evidence that Quorthon's vocal style (for example; this could apply to anything) did change from the S/T to BFD. You're providing your own perception and passing that off as objective reality. At the very least you would have to quantify and measure certain characteristics about his vocal style, but even that is dependent on the subjectivity of the instrument used to measure said characteristics, as well as the person making judgment over the degree of change in vocal style considered to be significant.

He said that Quorthon's vocal style changed after Blood Fire Death. Do we need to prove that harsh vocals are different to an attempt at clean singing? I'd think there's a pretty obvious difference that everyone can hear.

Anyway, obviously personal preference and taste is purely subjective, but I'm not completely sold on the idea that absolutely everything about music/art in general is purely subjective.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

There are definitely certain things about music that you can objectively measure, such as a singer's vocal range, the technical skills of an instrumentalist or the overall complexity of a composition. Of course, having some of those things at a technically high level doesn't necessarily make the end product into something that will be pleasing for all ears.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Just curious is there anyone here who would defend Lulu?

 

[Baroque]

Just curious is there anyone here who would defend Lulu?

I would only say they're free to experiment however they like, but not defend the music.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Just curious is there anyone here who would defend Lulu?

I thought that album was a weird happening since I recalled Lou Reed being very critical of metal musicians in the past.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I kinda liked Lulu. It had some good songs mixed in with all the dumb and overlong shit. Better album than Death Magnetic, at least.

 

[MrTagoMago]

I kinda liked Lulu. It had some good songs mixed in with all the dumb and overlong shit. Better album than Death Magnetic, at least.

What do you think we're the good songs?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't really remember tbh, I actually haven't listened to it since a few months after it came out. I seem to remember the second half was better than the first, and that Dragon in particular had some cool bits, but I dunno. I should listen to it again.

 

[Phylactery]

I've only heard 1 or 2 tracks off it which were completely abhorrent. I wouldn't be surprised if it is better than Death Magnetic, though. I remember when that came out and people were raving about it being a return to form and Metallica's best album since The Black Album. Load of shit.

 

[rusty water]

Lulu is alright but I think she relied heavily on covers and her own stuff was weak.

 

[rusty water]

While I agree that quality of art is subjective I do understand where Internally Deformed is coming from and is the main reason I think it is important to debate about art and dissect it. I mean imagine if this band came up with this unique piece of that required incredible skill to make and you just absolutely loved it, but no one paid attention to it while you had this other artists who records himself shitting on the toilet and becomes super popular and everyone loves him thinking he's a musical genius of some sort and he's getting all kinds of fame and money. That was a crude way of putting it but it would piss you off no?

I agree entirely with what you say. I obviously have to point out the exception to the rule, here, which is Tracey Emin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Emin

 

[Internally Deformed]

I agree entirely with what you say. I obviously have to point out the exception to the rule, here, which is Tracey Emin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Emin

Tracey Emin is terrible.

 

[rusty water]

Tracey Emin is terrible.

Yes she is. It all reminds me of the film called `the rebel` with Tony Hancock, that film is hilarious.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Just curious is there anyone here who would defend Lulu?

There's a weirdness factor to Lulu that I can definitely appreciate. Understand though I'm also a longtime Lou Reed fan so the vocals and lyrics on that album weren't the least bit surprising. The last thing you can say about Metallica is that they're a one-note band, regardless of whether or not you agree with their musical decisions. They knew from the get-go they'd get trashed for it and that's commendable. The massive butthurt that album caused was hilarious too.

 

[MrTagoMago]

There's a weirdness factor to Lulu that I can definitely appreciate. Understand though I'm also a longtime Lou Reed fan so the vocals and lyrics on that album weren't the least bit surprising. The last thing you can say about Metallica is that they're a one-note band, regardless of whether or not you agree with their musical decisions. They knew from the get-go they'd get trashed for it and that's commendable. The massive butthurt that album caused was hilarious too.

If they expected they'd get trashed for it I just think they could've reacted better to the backlash from fans.

 

[Internally Deformed]

If they expected they'd get trashed for it I just think they could've reacted better to the backlash from fans.

How did they react?

My recollection of Lulu was it was too boring to even be controversial. With St Anger they at least tried something, even if it didn't work. Lulu was just uninspired and repetitive.

 

[MrTagoMago]

How did they react?

My recollection of Lulu was it was too boring to even be controversial. With St Anger they at least tried something, even if it didn't work. Lulu was just uninspired and repetitive.

Lou Reed said something about how his work was only for literate people or some shit and I believe it was James who refered to the fans as men living in their mothers basement complaining on the internet.