Controversial opinions on metal

[zabu of nΩd]

Agreed. Calling them hacks is ridiculous but lately i have been slipping away from Zep and listening to Pink Floyd. I used to love Zep but Floyd's music is so much more rewarding.

Heh, I think I would say the opposite. I find Zep a lot more fun, whereas I often tire of the borderline-anemic sound of Floyd. I still think Floyd is a great band, and better than Zeppelin overall, but when you compare them to other great prog bands like King Crimson and the Moody Blues I think you'll notice that their sound is relatively sterile.

 

[Einherjar86]

Floyd is more about soundscapes, whereas King Crimson and Moody Blues are more about progressive musical performance.

 

[Cythraul]

I find it interesting that people take more pleasure in asserting their dislike of certain bands, when in fact there becomes less music out there to give them pleasure, than confessing that they like a band.

Face it: some people don't like Dimmu Borqueer. Quit getting butthurt over it.

 

[DarkBliss]

King Crimson are good and all, and when they reach a climax it's quite beautiful,(although it takes them a long time to get there) but some of their improvisational sections are really damn lame. What's the deal with all that wank in 21st Century Schizoid Man? Reminds me of the worst moments of Van der Graaf Generator(another band I used to binge on, but now I find them rather annoying).

 

[zabu of nΩd]

King Crimson are good and all, and when they reach a climax it's quite beautiful,(although it takes them a long time to get there) but some of their improvisational sections are really damn lame. What's the deal with all that wank in 21st Century Schizoid Man? Reminds me of the worst moments of Van der Graaf Generator(another band I used to binge on, but now I find them rather annoying).

21st Century Schizoid Man is the best song on that album tbh. The jazzy improv section is fucking energetic and crazy, yet still manages to retain catchiness. A masterpiece, mah man.

In 1969, King Crimson were still very much busy fleshing out the framework a genre that was still in the process of coming into being. Transitional works like In the Court of the Crimson King are always going to be rough around the edges, because they lack the institutionalized creative language that allows artists at more mature stages of a genre's development to draw on an established (and already edited) lexicon of the musical gestures that work. As a result, I think a careful critic or listener makes allowances for some of the uncertainty that comes with charting truly unknown waters.

As for you, In the Court was Crimson's best album, so however "transitional" you may feel the album to be has little bearing on the utterly stellar creativity and fantastic moods on display therein. In contrast, it seems like Crimson's "creative language" largely turned to gobbledy-gook with all the weird random-sounding experimental shit they slid into later on.

 

[DarkBliss]

21st Century Schizoid Man is the best song on that album tbh. The jazzy improv section is fucking energetic and crazy, yet still manages to retain catchiness. A masterpiece, mah man.

My favorite song on In the Court is Epitaph.
I definitely prefer Magma's druummer approach to prog rock: much more rhythmically intense, constantly shifting tempos yet always retaining coherence. Genius. Never thought I'd be swept away by such weird music.There's something warm and intimate about it that KC lacks, imo.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Yeah, Epitaph would be my second choice. Beautiful, beautiful song.

And I agree that Magma is more satisfying from a technical standpoint, though of course that wasn't really the point of In the Court. It's more about emotional resonance and epic soundscapes. There are just some really sweeping, almost cinematic moments on In the Court that you wouldn't really hear on a Magma album.

 

[DarkBliss]

Yeah, Epitaph would be my second choice. Beautiful, beautiful song.

And I agree that Magma is more satisfying from a technical standpoint, though of course that wasn't really the point of In the Court. It's more about emotional resonance and epic soundscapes.

Yea, the climaxes in Epitaph and the title track are awe-inspiring, and what I love most about this album is the vocal performance, it's amazing. But musically speaking , there are quite a few quieter moments when not much is happening, like in Moonchild and towards the end of the last track.

But anyway, I think we've strayed too far off topic.

 

[waif]

@WAIF: How can you love Hammerheart so much and not love Zeppelin? 'Kashmir' was basically the template for that album.

1. No.
2. Because Zeppelin are crap and Bathory rule. It doesn't fucking matter where the inspiration comes from, it's either good or it's not and if it's not then it should be relegated to the scrap heap of history, regardless of what springs from it. I don't give two shits about historical significance. Sabbath deserve praise not because they basically invented metal (although I do find that rather praiseworthy), but because they fucking rock.

And how can you not mention Bonham, one of the greatest rock drummers ever, and Plant, one of the most charismatic frontmen ever. Even John Paul Jones is seriously underrated.

Because I don't care about drumming when the music sucks and because Robert Plant is one of the most irritating, grating singers I've ever turned off after 3 minutes and because if you held a gun to my head I couldn't think of a single Zeppelin baseline.

You can reasonably call Led Zeppelin a lot of things, but 'hacks' is not one of them. Especially when you're talking about rock music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_zepellin#Allegations_of_plagiarism
But yeah, I got a little venomous there and just started spewing. My problem is mostly that every fucking person in Massachusetts seems to think every day is Led Zeppelin day or something, because most people around here will be wearing one of the following:
1. Zeppelin shirt
2. AC/DC shirt (another overrated bunch of talentless fucks with maybe 2 good songs after 30 years)
3. Floyd shirt (no complaints)
4. Polo
Unless they're black, in which case it's either a polo or a shirt with big fuzzy dice on it.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Well, to get back on topic...

I know I've said something along these lines before, but I really think Manilla Road is wildly overrated by some people here. I would assume that those among you who worship them do so for reasons other than songwriting elegance, but I'm not sure what the key is, really.

If you're looking for "vanguards of the true Spirit of Metal" or whatever, I'd think that Judas Priest holds the torch there. If you want an immersive fantasy ambience, there's a whole plethora of bands that have more elegance in that respect. I think Rainbow, for example, does a significantly better job at capturing the 'rootsy' sort of fantasy mood that Manilla seem to strive for.

I'm just really not getting what makes these guys so messianic, so if anyone would care to elaborate, feel free.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

2. AC/DC shirt (another overrated bunch of talentless fucks with maybe 2 good songs after 30 years)

Dammit, AC/DC haters irk me to no end. When will you people get some sense? I doubt any of you would call Motorhead untalented for playing the same thing over and over again. If your music kicks that much ass, there's no need to change it.

 

[Ross]

I like a few songs off of Toxicity(Forests, Psycho Groupie Cocaine Crazy? or whatever it's called) the rest of their stuff is meh.

As far as Dimmu i'd say Zeph and myself are one of the few people on here that genuinely enjoy Dimmu. I'll listen to their whole discography at any given time except for For All Tid which is terrible.

ill add myself to that list

 

[waif]

@Vihris: The problem isn't that they keep releasing the same songs, it's that they keep releasing the same shitty songs. Motorhead keep releasing the same badass songs. There's a difference.
Also, sadly, people don't fellate Motorhead or overplay them on the radio constantly (even Ace of Spades).

 

[arg]

ill add myself to that list

me too. and i like ISD.

 

[Belligerent]

^ That's odd, I've always enjoyed Dimmu Borgir, but never got into Cradle of Filth.

Same. I actually hate CoF with a passion.

Yeah, Epitaph would be my second choice. Beautiful, beautiful song.

Epitaph is perfection. My favorite KC song.

Beneath The Massacre sucks, probably not controversial being they're a crappy deathcore/metalcore band signed to a crappy label like Prosthetic Records which is for scenesters.

Yeah and i pretty much hate any band that sounds like them as well.

 

[challenge_everything]

1. No.

How eloquently rebutted.

2. Because Zeppelin are crap and Bathory rule. It doesn't fucking matter where the inspiration comes from, it's either good or it's not and if it's not then it should be relegated to the scrap heap of history, regardless of what springs from it. I don't give two shits about historical significance. Sabbath deserve praise not because they basically invented metal (although I do find that rather praiseworthy), but because they fucking rock.

Ditto. This says nothing about the music.

Because I don't care about drumming when the music sucks

Drumming is not part of the music? Bonham was one of the first outside of jazz to play drums not just as a metronome but like a lead instrument.

and because Robert Plant is one of the most irritating, grating singers I've ever turned off after 3 minutes

I can understand people not having a taste for Plant but on that basis you'd have a hard time enjoying Priest, Maiden and most power metal.

and because if you held a gun to my head I couldn't think of a single Zeppelin baseline.

You obviously haven't listened much then because 'Dazed and Confused' is only one of the most famous basslines ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_zepellin#Allegations_of_plagiarism

Congratulations on citing an internet source which you don't understand. Those allegations can basically be dismissed by one of the following:
1. 'plagiarism' was commonplace in blues and not considered objectionable.
2.Choose any of the heavier rock albums of the period and look at the number of covers (Jeff Beck, Yardbirds etc)
3. the majority of those songs were radically altered
4. those songs were basically Zep's formative period as they carved out a new style and really were not those that made them famous.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Can't people just not like things? Admittedly, WAIF did phrase his dislike stupidly by using objective words, but I don't understand why people saying they dislike something is liable to end up hugely under fire. Why should any of us give a shit? I mean, talking about controversial opinions is fun, but why does everything have to be so SRS BUSINESS. Lighten up, guys.

 

[Omni]

Bathory's Viking era isn't really similar to Led Zeppelin anyway. I don't even know what you're talking about, actually.

 

[challenge_everything]

Can't people just not like things? Admittedly, WAIF did phrase his dislike stupidly by using objective words, but I don't understand why people saying they dislike something is liable to end up hugely under fire. Why should any of us give a shit? I mean, talking about controversial opinions is fun, but why does everything have to be so SRS BUSINESS. Lighten up, guys.

Given we barely go a page around here without someone describing someone else as a faggot or a retard, I would have thought a discussion purely about music wouldn't be an issue.

 

[challenge_everything]

Bathory's Viking era isn't really similar to Led Zeppelin anyway. I don't even know what you're talking about, actually.

I'm not talking about their bluesy stuff but their epic stuff: Kashmir, Achilles' Last Stand. And technically I wasn't saying it was similar but rather I would have thought that someone who likes Hammerheart would at least like some Zep because of the moods and feel of the music. That's how it is for me anyway.