Controversial opinions on metal

[no country for old wainds]

not pointing fingers at anyone here 'cause i haven't even read anything before dodens' post, but i find a lot of people miss out on some of the best music going because a particular element sounds weird and jarring (in mayhem, demilich etc's case, the vocals) at first, overwhelming everything else. this reaction generally dissipates after a few listens, and such initial inaccessilibity is often indicative of greatness, as many of the most fulfilling experiences tend to be hard earned. when an album is held up as classic across the board such as DMDS is, that implies that one of those experiences might be contained within, and that it is well worth pursuing through the uncomfortable phase to discover what a bit of familiarity might reveal. i don't really have a problem with those people who can't be bothered to set aside enough time (although if you're a fan of that particular genre it seems as though you'd be missing out), life being short and all that, BUT to criticise an album based on that kind of superficial reaction is just lazy.

 

[Belligerent]

If there is any Norwegian band I have a soft spot for, it has still got to be Emperor.

Same here, don't see myself ever getting tired of Emperor or Enslaved.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Any criticism of Attila's vocals on DMDS will always and forever be viewed as blasphemy from my perspective.

i cant listen listen to that album because of his vocals ...

 

[Slayed Necros]

not pointing fingers at anyone here 'cause i haven't even read anything before dodens' post, but i find a lot of people miss out on some of the best music going because a particular element sounds weird and jarring (in mayhem, demilich etc's case, the vocals) at first, overwhelming everything else. this reaction generally dissipates after a few listens, and such initial inaccessilibity is often indicative of greatness, as many of the most fulfilling experiences tend to be hard earned. when an album is held up as classic across the board such as DMDS is, that implies that one of those experiences might be contained within, and that it is well worth pursuing through the uncomfortable phase to discover what a bit of familiarity might reveal. i don't really have a problem with those people who can't be bothered to set aside enough time (although if you're a fan of that particular genre it seems as though you'd be missing out), life being short and all that, BUT to criticise an album based on that kind of superficial reaction is just lazy.

Agreed, good post.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I'm to crucial about guitar playing to like Norwegian BM, especially say Burzum.

Interesting... I remember you saying you liked first wave black metal though... Bathory, Venom, Celtic Frost... and yet the musicianship and production are just as sloppy on those albums as on any Norweigan black metal disc.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Let's really get controversial: Belus is the best. It is the only Burzum album without filler.

I disagree though I think that album is very good. The last track is basically filler as is the intro. But yes I agree that overrall it is more consistent than the first two.

 

[CF87]

Interesting... I remember you saying you liked first wave black metal though... Bathory, Venom, Celtic Frost... and yet the musicianship and production are just as sloppy on those albums as on any Norweigan black metal disc.

These bands are better musicians imo.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

These bands are better musicians imo.

Disagree. Honestly compare say... oh Welcome to Hell to Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk. Welcome to Hell is mostly power chords played sloppily. Early Celtic Frost is mostly just fast power chords as well. Don't get me wrong I dig this shit but there are in fact more advanced musicians in Norweigan BM than these groups... so... yeah.

 

[CF87]

Playing open notes is not any more advanced then power chords. Lead playing requires more musicianship which norwegian black metal bands do not have. Emperor happen to be good musicians when it comes to Norwegian BM, but it does not change the fact they suck and are annoying.

 

[CF87]

Celtic Frost,Bathory,Venom is Rythmn/lead. It's not flat. I guess I look at music like say you could draw something with lines or you could draw something with the basic foundation to make it dimensional.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Playing open notes is not any more advanced then power chords. Lead playing requires more musicianship which norwegian black metal bands do not have. Emperor happen to be good musicians when it comes to Norwegian BM, but it does not change the fact they suck and are annoying.

The lead playing on those bands classic albums are mostly just fast pentatonic scales with chromatic notes... i.e. stuff almost anyone can play. Secondly I'm not aware of any Norweigan black metal band that exclusively plays open notes.
Just confess... you don't like Norweigan black metal because that style doesn't appeal to you. Musicianship has nothing to do with it.

 

[Invade Me]

It's interesting to me to read everyone's thoughts on Burzum, because they show that Burzum is what popped your black metal cherries. My phase of obsessing about black metal didn't involve Burzum at all, and I only began to appreciate Varg's music after I put black metal on the back burner. Early albums by Emperor, Mayhem, Darkthrone, and Satyricon were my world in the late 1990's when I listened to a lot of black metal. I bought into the Mayhem/Burzum rivalry of that day, and made the ignorant decision to ignore Burzum. Now I hate 80% of Mayhem's music and love everything I've heard by Burzum. If there is any Norwegian band I have a soft spot for, it has still got to be Emperor.

It's interesting to see how the scene's assessment of Burzum and Mayhem has shifted over time. In the mid and late 1990s, there was a definite tendency among those metal fans who enjoyed black metal (still in those days a distinct minority) to prefer Mayhem to Burzum. These days, that preference is Burzum. To some degree, I think this is because Burzum's music is simply better, but took more time for people to really process. And there was that whole murder/arson/jail thingy.

Still, I wonder if Mayhem's higher profile in the 1990s also reflects the demographic shift in the black metal audience since that time. The bulk of the (knowledgeable) fans in those days were definitely more like an old school "heavy metal" crowd, basically more blue collar, and their listening history was pretty much exclusively metal, unless they had a smattering of interest in grind and hardcore. The audience now skews more middle/upper middle class, white collar (IT guys wanna go analog sometimes, too), and way more likely to have something in their listening history other than metal. Burzum's basic sound is less rooted in traditional metal technique, and by Hvis lyset tar oss and Filosofem, there was almost as much convergence with ambient music, darker dream pop (Dead Can Dance?) and even shoegaze as there was with metal (although I suspect the dream pop and shoegaze similarities are examples of parallel evolution rather than direct influence). Mayhem, on the other hand, was always the Norwegian band most like the metal that preceded it.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

Good post, very insightful.

 

[waif]

Hammerfall fucking rule. I know they're pretty popular, but they don't get so much love on here.

 

[Kara-Shehr]

And now, for something really controversial: the single "Gateways" off of Dimmu's new one is so much fun to listen to. Literally, I smile from ear to ear upon hearing it, but I enjoy it. It's just so campy and theatrical. And the last minute or so of the song is great.

Same, I fucking love that song. It sounds so epic and huge in my car with my sound system.

 

[Hell Patrol]

Hammerfall fucking rule.

Agreed.

 

[The Butt]

It's interesting to me to read everyone's thoughts on Burzum, because they show that Burzum is what popped your black metal cherries. My phase of obsessing about black metal didn't involve Burzum at all, and I only began to appreciate Varg's music after I put black metal on the back burner. Early albums by Emperor, Mayhem, Darkthrone, and Satyricon were my world in the late 1990's when I listened to a lot of black metal. I bought into the Mayhem/Burzum rivalry of that day, and made the ignorant decision to ignore Burzum. Now I hate 80% of Mayhem's music and love everything I've heard by Burzum. If there is any Norwegian band I have a soft spot for, it has still got to be Emperor.

Oddly enough, my introduction to BM was Nagelfar (GER), not Burzum. I loved Virus West, and the cover of Transilvanian Hunger, moved onto Darkthrone, and then the other Norwegian intro bands from there.

Burzum is definitely the one I have the biggest soft spot for though.

Is anything post DMDS-Mayhem worth even hearing? I heard Grand Declaration years ago when it was released and didn't think anything of it, but I may enjoy it now. THat being said, I still havent heard Deathcrush. Should I?

Emperor certainly stands shoulders above the rest, with their first two albums and the split with Enslaved.

Enslaved to me, though, has always seemed like the mature adult in a room full of angst ridden kids, in regards to the early to mid nineties Norwegian releases.

Chimera is very, very good.

Let's really get controversial: Belus is the best. It is the only Burzum album without filler.

I love Belus, a lot, but I wouldn't claim its the best. Glemselens Elv, is Varg's best song however. Just ethereal.

 

[sevag00]

Mayhem's Ordo Ad Chao is really good too.

 

[warchild7.62]

Brutal death metal and grindcore blows.

i agree

 

[Satanstoenail]

Chimera is very, very good.

I not into black metal at all but I love that album. If I ever need a black metal fix, which isn't often, I put on "Whore" really loud and pull grim faces and play air drums and shit.