Writing cyrillic, nor speaking. Cyrillic is not a language. If you prefer I can quote what you said. BUt you will say that it's my lack of understanding of the english language rather than you jumping from one reasoning to another just to fit your point of view.
Cyhra - Jesper and Peter's new band
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krofius
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- Mar 16, 2009
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I think that you're clearly misunderstanding things here. First, Anders has no unique vocals. Second, if you think that the vocals are part of what made them popular, then blame not Anders but the different people who wrote his vocal lines.
krofius
Active Member
- Mar 16, 2009
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Clearly is your lack of understanding if you don't think you can use ''i was speaking about'' or ''i was talking about'' while writing in textform.
Well, I'll stop replying to Krofius as his salt levels are so high I think it might be dangerous to his health and I don't want to be implicated in anything fatal.
Well it was more a poor choice of words if there was a misunderstanding. I know English isn't your first language so it's fine, but what you said was "Even though Anders is not good at cleans I can say that he IS better than Jake" which leaves a lot to interpretation. "IS better than Jake" at what, exactly? Doing a lot of vocal techniques badly? Yeah I guess so. Better at screaming? Probably but we've never heard Jake scream so it's hard to say. Plus screaming is a real minority style and you'll get a lot further with singing - why do you think Anders is so desperately trying to move away from screaming? He still does it live so it ain't to save his vocals. It's because the money and appreciation is in singing, not screaming.
So if you're saying Anders is "better" than Jake at doing more varied vocals than okay, fine, but so what? If he does one niche vocal style well but sucks at all the others it doesn't make him better than someone who does a more commercial style of singing very, very well. You and Krofius seem to have this strange belief that Anders being "unique" by doing a bunch of weird vocal stuff badly somehow makes him better than Jake who does one style really well. You call it boring, others would call it perfecting a craft. To call someone boring for doing a particular style of vocal well is really strange, if YOU find it boring then fine, but to say it IS boring as a fact is just wrong, and to say somebody singing badly in multiple ways is somehow better is just bizarre.
Put it this way, ask most bands across the metal spectrum whether they'd want Jake or Anders doing vocals and if you're being honest you know the answer won't be Anders for most of them.
And let's not bring band popularity into it, because Jake was a big part of Amaranthe who are wildly more successful in terms of attracting fans and followers. than In Flames ever have been or ever will be. The Nexus as one example has 19M views on YouTube. Yes, 19 MILLION. Deliver Us has 1.1M views. And for the record Deliver Us had a 2 year head start on The Nexus. Only comparable IF track on YouTube is TTL which does have 16M views, but was on Guitar Hero and has been up for 11 years, so, yeah. Let's not talk about band popularity because I'm afraid Jake's brief time in Amaranthe kind of eclipses Anders. Oh and don't use the whole "he shared the vocals with others"... well, yeah, and Anders shared musically with Bjorn, Jesper/Niklas - all music is a joint effort so you're arguing a circular point there.
Well it was more a poor choice of words if there was a misunderstanding. I know English isn't your first language so it's fine, but what you said was "Even though Anders is not good at cleans I can say that he IS better than Jake" which leaves a lot to interpretation. "IS better than Jake" at what, exactly? Doing a lot of vocal techniques badly? Yeah I guess so. Better at screaming? Probably but we've never heard Jake scream so it's hard to say. Plus screaming is a real minority style and you'll get a lot further with singing - why do you think Anders is so desperately trying to move away from screaming? He still does it live so it ain't to save his vocals. It's because the money and appreciation is in singing, not screaming.
So if you're saying Anders is "better" than Jake at doing more varied vocals than okay, fine, but so what? If he does one niche vocal style well but sucks at all the others it doesn't make him better than someone who does a more commercial style of singing very, very well. You and Krofius seem to have this strange belief that Anders being "unique" by doing a bunch of weird vocal stuff badly somehow makes him better than Jake who does one style really well. You call it boring, others would call it perfecting a craft. To call someone boring for doing a particular style of vocal well is really strange, if YOU find it boring then fine, but to say it IS boring as a fact is just wrong, and to say somebody singing badly in multiple ways is somehow better is just bizarre.
Put it this way, ask most bands across the metal spectrum whether they'd want Jake or Anders doing vocals and if you're being honest you know the answer won't be Anders for most of them.
And let's not bring band popularity into it, because Jake was a big part of Amaranthe who are wildly more successful in terms of attracting fans and followers. than In Flames ever have been or ever will be. The Nexus as one example has 19M views on YouTube. Yes, 19 MILLION. Deliver Us has 1.1M views. And for the record Deliver Us had a 2 year head start on The Nexus. Only comparable IF track on YouTube is TTL which does have 16M views, but was on Guitar Hero and has been up for 11 years, so, yeah. Let's not talk about band popularity because I'm afraid Jake's brief time in Amaranthe kind of eclipses Anders. Oh and don't use the whole "he shared the vocals with others"... well, yeah, and Anders shared musically with Bjorn, Jesper/Niklas - all music is a joint effort so you're arguing a circular point there.
Clearly it's your lack of understanding about the writing language, or the english language, or maybe any language, and the way that you twist your own words, since speaking in has not the same meaning as speaking about and you clearly don't know that you cannot unse words like speaking or talking when referring to characters.
So maybe it is you the one having a problem with the way that you express yourself. So stop blaming others for your lack of ability.
Anders has two things that he can do, now, better than almost anyone. He can (not) scream and he can (not) sing.
Anders has two things that he can do, now, better than almost anyone. He can (not) scream and he can (not) sing.
Anders had some decent screams until about 2008. They've been average at best since then for the most part. He's never been a good clean singer. Never. He's sounded alright on a few songs (SOAPF album probably his best) but it's all done with studio magic/ProTools. Listen to him live or on those embarrassing acoustic sets and it's obvious he cannot replicate those studio vocals.
Jake doesn't scream but why would he? Is it a good idea to fuck up his vocal chords learning a technique for a niche group of metalheads? No, of course it isn't. As a clean singer he not only sounds good technically on album but can match that performance live. So, undeniably he's far better than cleans than Anders - even Krofius and Ciko admit this on a technical level if nothing else.
Both of the above seem pretty fair to me. Based on the above I don't see how Anders is "better than" Jake at anything other than a vocal technique that very few vocalists actually use and only appeals to a very small group of people in an equally small subset of a relatively small genre. To cut a long story short, in the real world screaming technique barely even earns Anders a point. Obviously it's a bigger deal here but objectively it is not important. If it was then bands like In Flames, Arch Enemy, Dark Tranquillity, etc would be selling platinum and doing huge stadium tours. Ain't happening because that vocal technique is an acquired taste that to be brutally honest most people grow out of by the time they hit their 30s.
I understand if people don't like Jake's vocals on a personal level. It's fine. But it's nothing more than a personal taste which will be in the minority. That's all... nothing else to say about it.
I was referring about today
.He doesn't need to but, if he could do it with a decent technique, that might, perhaps, improve to a certain extent the songs, or some parts of the songs, and bring some variaty to them.
The ability to scream doesn't make anyone better. It doesn't give value, though it might be good, as I said before, for some kind of music. Even if that was a plus, then Anders also fails since he could not find a way to scream without destroying his own voice, so his screams weren't also good.
If you were Jake would you risk messing up your voice to learn such a technique though, really? If they want screams in their next album just do what Amaranthe did and get a guy in who only does screams. In the long run this is actually a much better solution than having one guy do both, because switching between screaming/singing live is really, really tough. Even guys who are good at it like Stanne, Speed and Åkerfeldt audibly struggle doing so in live performances.
I don't know if I would do that. I think that there are techniques to do this safely, but I don't really know.
There technically are but imo those types of controlled screams/growls sound really shitty and weak. Alternative is long term fucking up the voicebox though, so you gotta go with controlled or you end up like Anders.
This could definitely still change your voice though, particularly live, so if I was Jake I wouldn't risk it. No real down sides to bringing in a guy who only does harsh vocals, really. Bring in a girl too and we'll have Amaranthe featuring Jesper
fuck yeah You know, I think that I understand what they mean with Anders' uniqueness. He has a recognizable voice. No matter were you hear him you will always know that it's him. I don't think that it happens with Jake's. But the thing is that it doesn't matter. Only musical and vocal abilities matter. Jake can sing and can write his own lines. That's a 2-0.There technically are but imo those types of controlled screams/growls sound really shitty and weak. Alternative is long term fucking up the voicebox though, so you gotta go with controlled or you end up like Anders.
This could definitely still change your voice though, particularly live, so if I was Jake I wouldn't risk it. No real down sides to bringing in a guy who only does harsh vocals, really. Bring in a girl too and we'll have Amaranthe featuring Jesper
Anders' strong point was, to me, the lyrics. He had a time were he wrote really inspired words. That time is no more so it also doesn't matter anymore.
Love the debate going on here. I think Cyhra has really hit a nerve among the new In Flames fans because with a single freshman album Cyhra is at the same level as In Flames. With a good second release they might surpass In Flames.
Clay-Man
Anders pre-2003
- May 18, 2008
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If you need death metal screaming and growling in all of the music you listen to, you're missing the point of having the privilege of listening to more than just 1 genre of music.
If it's not favorable to your taste, fine, don't generalize it though just because you don't understand it.
If it's not favorable to your taste, fine, don't generalize it though just because you don't understand it.
I understand what they mean about Anders' uniqueness, but the problem is they're automatically equating that to being better than a singer who only does one recognised style. It's like saying Anders is better than Opera singers because they all sound the same and he sounds "unique". It's a stupid argument.
Lyrics were definitely Anders' strong suit up until ASOP when it all went to shit. SOAPF was a slight improvement, last two albums have been pretty poor though.
I dunno who's writing lyrics for Cyhra but they aren't great. Nothing horrible but a lot of the lyrics, even though they are average, are pulled up by Jake's vocal execution of those words. He really does add to those lyrics in a way all good vocalists should.
I'd already rank LtM way above SC and Battles, but I wouldn't quite put it above SOAPF. It's just below that level for me at the moment. Next album should surpass that though if the flaws of this album are improved upon.
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