Cyhra - Jesper and Peter's new band

[Jester Slave]

ANders doesn't have a bad voice. He has an interesting one. It's just that he cannot sing. That's all. He cannot fucking sing

Okay. And? The whole point of mine was to show that we can't just rate these things in a vacuum.

Because yes, to many of us, his dirty, imperfect delivery what makes a very good song a fucking great one.

Okay, fuck it, let's listen to Vacuum for example. The way he fucking butchers those verses make it sound all mad and crazy, pumps you up. No, I would not want Björn from Soilwork on that song for example, even if he is so much better than Anders.

 

[eochaid]

Okay. And? The whole point of mine was to show that we can't just rate these things in a vacuum.

Because yes, to many of us, his dirty, imperfect delivery what makes a very good song a fucking great one.

No, we can rate those things. Because if you're only a singer when you're using pro tools, then you're nothing against someone who can actually sing.

Okay, fuck it, let's listen to Vacuum for example. The way he fucking butchers those verses make it sound all mad and crazy, pumps you up.

He used to scream very good. But that's not even a value when talking about music. Screams are just screams. It can add things to a song, but a guy who screams will never be a better singer than someone who can sing.

 

[Jester Slave]

Only you care about how great of a singer he is on some objective scale. I let it go long ago. Okay, he is shit, you won. Move over that part.

Let me ask you this: Did mister Anders Fridén and his unique albeit absolutely terrible, horrendous, no good voice helped giving In Flames and its songs a certain personality, which many people found attractive? Did he? DID HE?!

 

[eochaid]

Only you care about how great of a singer he is on some objective scale. I let it go long ago. Okay, he is shit, you won. Move over that part.

Re read the discussions. It started with Ciko saying how much better Anders was than Jake.

Let me ask you this: Did mister Anders Fridén and his unique albeit absolutely terrible, horrendous, no good voice helped giving In Flames and its songs a certain personality, which many people found attractive? Did he? DID HE?!

You mean the producers and the pro tools? Because Anders cannot write shit. Well, he writes the lyrics then another guy tells him how to sing the lyrics then a pro tool allows him to do what he's been told to do. Ah, yes, the screams. As I said, re read the conversation.

 

[Jester Slave]

If you don't take Ciko literally, you could see his point. "Better" is not an easy word. Even things you can actually keep track of, like running can be tricky. Who is a better runner, me or you? Well, depends: are we running 100 meters? 400? 8000? Do we include obstacles?

Now, singing should be much harder. While there is no ultimate answer, if you don't assume he meant it in a way you can easily ridicule his statement, you might see he has some valid points.

And I can't even address the second part. Again, double-standard. You are hellbent on forcing fanboyism onto us, and you just casually say that Anders did nothing and everyone could do what he did (that nothing), and basically he doesn't deserve any praise. Except some cynical praises, like "good job Anders, nice pro tools", "good job Anders, must be hard be successfull on Jesper's back" or kind stuff like this. But hey, it's okay. Jesper "I am fucking salty" Strömblad said Anders took a lot of time in the booth with producers so you fucking know everything.

But hey, guys, civil discussions, right?

 

[eochaid]

If you don't take Ciko literally, you could see his point. "Better" is not an easy word. Even things you can actually keep track of, like running can be tricky. Who is a better runner, me or you? Well, depends: are we running 100 meters? 400? 8000? Do we include obstacles?

Who decides if we might take him literally. Anders is, in no way, a better singer than Jake. A better frontman? I don't know? A better liricist? He used to be one of my favourite ones and those from Jake are not very inspiring.

Now, singing should be much harder. While there is no ultimate answer, if you don't assume he meant it in a way you can easily ridicule his statement, you might see he has some valid points.

I would like you to present those points to me.

And I can't even address the second part. Again, double-standard. You are hellbent on forcing fanboyism onto us, and you just casually say that Anders did nothing and everyone could do what he did (that nothing), and basically he doesn't deserve any praise. Except some cynical praises, like "good job Anders, nice pro tools", "good job Anders, must be hard be successfull on Jesper's back" or kind stuff like this. But hey, it's okay. Jesper "I am fucking salty" Strömblad said Anders took a lot of time in the booth with producers so you fucking know everything.

Sorry, I was taking Krofius words literally. Yes, he said that.

And yes, Anders deserves to be praised for some things that he did, in the past. But praising him for his actual self is unfair for his past self.

 

[Jester Slave]

It depends what you look in a singer.

Who is a better wife? A thin one? Curvy one? Should she be a good cook or good in bed? Should she be good with people or with money? Eye of the beholder, or in Anders' case, ear of the beholder, my friend.



For one, Anders and Jake sings in completely different styles. If you think Anders' way of mixing screams and cleans are more exciting than Jake's popstar approach, than it's suddenly 1-0 for Anders. It doesn't even matter if Jake can or can't do it, because he doesn't.

His actual self is a culmination of his self over time. Anders is Ceremonial Oath Anders+Whoracle Anders+STYE Anders+Battles Anders and so on. You can't just call him (or imply) fake.

 

[eochaid]

It depends what you look in a singer.

The ability to sing?

Who is a better wife? A thin one? Curvy one? Should she be a good cook or good in bed? Should she be good with people or with money?

One who sucks your cock hard.

For one, Anders and Jake sings in completely different styles. If you think Anders' way of mixing screams and cleans are more exciting than Jake's popstar approach, than it's suddenly 1-0 for Anders. It doesn't even matter if Jake can or can't do it, because he doesn't.

That's the point. Anders does not sing. He tries to, but he can't. So Jake always wins. And I prefer Anders voice. In fact I would love for Anders to be a real singer, to be able to sing live without the use of pro tools. He can't.

His actual self is a culmination of his self over time. Anders is Ceremonial Oath Anders+Whoracle Anders+STYE Anders+Battles Anders and so on. You can't just call him (or imply) fake.

Not what I meant. I was talking about the effort that he made, effort that destroyed his voice, and how good he was once as a lyricist. I think that Anders always wanted to do the thing that he does now, or that he tries to do.

 

[Jester Slave]

There are many types of singing. Call whatever Anders does, it was good. At least we think that, your opinion differs, but that's about it. Btw to me a perfect male vocalist would be like Corey Taylor on Vol 3. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Soilwork's singer has a better voice, but I liked Corey's angry singing more.

Now, singers like Jake does nothing for me. It's warm to my ears, it's nice, god bless his soul, but this pitch-perfect voice is not something I find particularly fascinating. Such "perfect" can get boring pretty fast. Yes, Anders' agony is more exciting to me and it conveys actual emotions. I know your finger is itching to say "I feeeeel like shiiiiiiiiit", but he has many songs, and just because you quote the cheesiest lines (which are imo on ASOP and Battles) it won't make your argument stronger, just selective.

By the way, since it's the Cyhra thread: one of you showed me Nightingale back then. I only got the Nightfall Overture record, and imo it is better than L2M. Musically, no question, there are some fucking sweet riffs on NO. Vocally, well.. my pet peeve with Nightingale that some lyrics actually make my mind numb. I don't even know why I did not delete Alonely from my computer yet, that song is an abomination. Anyway, I like his voice better than Jake, but sadly I clearly understand his words, which sometimes are quite dumb, while Jake's high-pitched voice numbs the words sometimes so I can pretend he is cooler. Hard choice.

 

[eochaid]

There are many types of singing. Call whatever Anders does, it was good. At least we think that, your opinion differs, but that's about it.

Sorry to say it but then your opinion is wrong. If not being able to give two proper notes is singing, then I'm Pavarotti.

Btw to me a perfect male vocalist would be like Corey Taylor on Vol 3. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Soilwork's singer has a better voice, but I liked Corey's angry singing more.

That was good... He's such a good singer...

Now, singers like Jake does nothing for me. It's warm to my ears, it's nice, god bless his soul, but this pitch-perfect voice is not something I find particularly fascinating. Such "perfect" can get boring pretty fast. Yes, Anders' agony is more exciting to me and it conveys actual emotions. I know your finger is itching to say "I feeeeel like shiiiiiiiiit", but he has many songs, and just because you quote the cheesiest lines (which are imo on ASOP and Battles) it won't make your argument stronger, just selective.

I understand what you mean. But, once again, I must insist. Anders cannot sing. Singing is something different from putting yourself in front of a microphone. A real singer knows how to use his voice. A real singer is tuned with the music and with himself. Anders cannot do any of these things.

 

[DE4life]

Btw to me a perfect male vocalist would be like Corey Taylor on Vol 3.

That's it, I'm done. Goodnight.

 

[eochaid]

That's it, I'm done. Goodnight.

Well, I like Corey Taylor.

 

[Jester Slave]

Sorry to say it but then your opinion is wrong. If not being able to give two proper notes is singing, then I'm Pavarotti.

That was good... He's such a good singer...

I understand what you mean. But, once again, I must insist. Anders cannot sing. Singing is something different from putting yourself in front of a microphone. A real singer knows how to use his voice. A real singer is tuned with the music and with himself. Anders cannot do any of these things.

Jesus, then Anders is a good whatever, you come up with a word for it. I am not hellbent on calling him a good singer. I don't care what you think he did from Whoracle through today (sorry, he is rather mediocre on TJR), but I've found it rather satisfying and cemented In Flames in my heart. Björn from Soilwork is an amazing singer, but I prefer In Flames' style and that includes Anders in the big picture as well. R2R, STYE and CC are my favorite metal records, period. (Not including new metal here, because Hybrid Theory+Meteora is just cheating in my eyes)

That's it, I'm done. Goodnight.

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow, really? Reaaaaaallly? Sure, I understand that Slipknot enjoys a mainstream success, thus you have to pretend you hate their music, because you are only metal if you like some garage bands. I understand that part. But to hate on Corey?????

You have an easy time with Anders, because you link some live performance and you can say "case closed", but Corey sounds the same live as well.

Duality? Before I Forget? Everything Ends? Snuff? Anything from Stone Sour? I thought we are through with the childish "popular singer/band = bad", but apparently not. Though I eagerly await you to show me how he is not a very good singer. Or at least was, did not listen to their newest live DVD.

 

[eochaid]

Jesus, then Anders is a good whatever, you come up with a word for it. I am not hellbent on calling him a good singer. I don't care what you think he did from Whoracle through today (sorry, he is rather mediocre on TJR), but I've found it rather satisfying and cemented In Flames in my heart.

Singing and screaming are two different things. Sorry to say this. I like the screams, I like Anders sreams. But that's not singing.

Duality? Before I Forget? Everything Ends? Snuff? Anything from Stone Sour? I thought we are through with the childish "popular singer/band = bad", but apparently not. Though I eagerly await you to show me how he is not a very good singer. Or at least was, did not listen to their newest live DVD.

Corey Taylor is one of the best singers that I've seen live. Not only that, he's also an amazing frontman. It's a shame that his ego is bigger than his skills.

 

[Jester Slave]

What do you mean by his ego? I mean what did he say?

And okay, his screaming then, but for example, I appreciate his cleans on R2R, STYE and CC as well. They are mostly very well placed and delivered.

 

[eochaid]

What do you mean by his ego? I mean what did he say?

And okay, his screaming then, but for example, I appreciate his cleans on R2R, STYE and CC as well. They are mostly very well placed and delivered.

So you know nothing about Corey Taylor? Just read his words mate. He's almost every week in the media.

Anders cleans on those days were also done using pro tools... So, though I like the studio final result I'm also aware of his inability to make them live.

 

[DE4life]

I never said Corey was a bad singer. In fact I like him a lot. But "perfect male vocalist" based on Vol 3? Give me a break. For a start his stuff in Stone Sour blows away anything he's done with Slipknot. Also his harsh vocals are very average. Anders does better harsh vocals than Corey. His singing is good but better than the likes of Bruce Dickinson or Kiske? No, not for me.

 

[DE4life]

I'm starting to appreciate Nightrage a bit more after repeated listens. That gothic-tinged opening followed by the verse bursting out of the gates is awesome. The bridge is done really well too - chorus is slower than I'd expect though. This is another song where the tempo fluctuates and can take a bit of getting used to. Verses are fast and powerful, bridge/chorus are a lot slower. It works alright but I think the chorus could have had a slightly more increased tempo and fit in better overall. Good song regardless.

 

[eochaid]

I'm starting to appreciate Nightrage a bit more after repeated listens. That gothic-tinged opening followed by the verse bursting out of the gates is awesome. The bridge is done really well too - chorus is slower than I'd expect though. This is another song where the tempo fluctuates and can take a bit of getting used to. Verses are fast and powerful, bridge/chorus are a lot slower. It works alright but I think the chorus could have had a slightly more increased tempo and fit in better overall. Good song regardless.

Heartrage?

 

[DE4life]

Heartrage?

Oops, yeah... although Nightrage are awesome too