Dark fucking Throne!

[zabu of nΩd]

In virtue of what are they interchangeable? I'd like to know, because they certainly don't sound interchangeable to me. And exactly what musical ideas do they recycle throughout this album?

Forgive me for resorting to a half-assed argument at the moment since I'm not near my home computer right now, and probably wouldn't feel like analysing the music anyway if I were, but the main thing I notice is that there's a certain set of drum beats Fenriz uses that seem to recur in different combinations in most of the songs. They all sound really cool the first time I hear them, but over time I begin to hear the same patterns of tempo changes, the same general timing for opening the hi-hat, etc. It wouldn't stand out as much if the drumming were more minimalistic, but imo if you're using such a discrete set of beats like that it really needs to evolve after a while.

Don't even bother, Cythraul. The melodies aren't obvious enough for it to be a good album that isn't interchangeable and monotonous.

I realise you enjoy this recurring jab, but let me ask you this: How do you draw the line between subtle, "un-obvious" melodies and melodies which are essentially just random strings of notes/chords, or riffs which are over-repeated? Because neither of those are very creative on the songwriter's part, and time and time again I find many extreme metal melodies amounting to essentially that - unmeaningful randomness or unmeaningful minimalism. Do you ever find either of those problematic?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I think you should stop fighting a losing battle tbh.

 

[George]

1.The Winds They Called The Dungeon Shaker
2.Oath Minus
3.Hiking Metal Punx
4.Blacksmith Of The North
5.Norway In September
6.Grizzly Trade
7.Hanging Out In Haiger
8.Dark Thrones And Black Flags
9.Launchpad To Nothingness
10.Witch Ghetto

YES! Last I heard the release date is a little more than a month away. FOAD was my top album last year, and it's pretty safe to assume this will top 08.

 

[Omni]

How do you draw the line between subtle, "un-obvious" melodies and melodies which are essentially just random strings of notes/chords, or riffs which are over-repeated? Because neither of those are very creative on the songwriter's part, and time and time again I find many extreme metal melodies amounting to essentially that - unmeaningful randomness or unmeaningful minimalism. Do you ever find either of those problematic?

How does any of what you just stated apply to this album anyway? Also, who are you to determine whether or not something in art is unmeaningful? You need to be relevant, and not stating what's clearly only your perspective as absolute might also help.

 

[Omni]

It wouldn't stand out as much if the drumming were more minimalistic, but imo if you're using such a discrete set of beats like that it really needs to evolve after a while.

I think you meant to say distinct. Discrete would actually be an adjective to describe something that is minimalistic.

 

[Cythraul]

Forgive me for resorting to a half-assed argument at the moment since I'm not near my home computer right now, and probably wouldn't feel like analysing the music anyway if I were, but the main thing I notice is that there's a certain set of drum beats Fenriz uses that seem to recur in different combinations in most of the songs. They all sound really cool the first time I hear them, but over time I begin to hear the same patterns of tempo changes, the same general timing for opening the hi-hat, etc. It wouldn't stand out as much if the drumming were more minimalistic, but imo if you're using such a discrete set of beats like that it really needs to evolve after a while.

Half-assed seems about right. Even if what you say is true, it's not sufficient to support the claim that the songs are interchangeable. Does it support the claim that some musical ideas within the album under question get recycled? Sure, but I can hardly see why that, in itself, is a very compelling argument against the album's quality since it's hardly sufficient to just pick out some single aspect of the album and criticize that very thing without any reference to what role it plays within the musical work as a whole. It's basically the same thing as what often happens when people criticize the production of black metal albums. As if there's some standard of what makes production good that is independent of what role it plays with respect to the musical expression. It just seems absurd to me. And right now I don't feel like seeing whether what you claim is actually true since I'm about to listen to some Destroyer 666 instead.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I think you should stop fighting a losing battle tbh.

Nah. I occasionally find the resulting dialogues enlightening.

How does any of what you just stated apply to this album anyway?

It doesn't. I was mainly just getting irked at the "obvious melodies" comment.

Also, who are you to determine whether or not something in art is unmeaningful? You need to be relevant, and not stating what's clearly only your perspective as absolute might also help.

Probably. But you didn't answer my questions. I'm really just wondering if you use anything close to that standard in your own appraisals of music.

Half-assed seems about right. Even if what you say is true, it's not sufficient to support the claim that the songs are interchangeable. Does it support the claim that some musical ideas within the album under question get recycled? Sure, but I can hardly see why that, in itself, is a very compelling argument against the album's quality since it's hardly sufficient to just pick out some single aspect of the album and criticize that very thing without any reference to what role it plays within the musical work as a whole. It's basically the same thing as what often happens when people criticize the production of black metal albums. As if there's some standard of what makes production good that is independent of what role it plays with respect to the musical expression. It just seems absurd to me. And right now I don't feel like seeing whether what you claim is actually true since I'm about to listen to some Destroyer 666 instead.

Well I guess the role of the drumwork is to create dynamics in the music. What do you think its role is?

Since this debate is probably going nowhere, I'll be brief and just say that it seems to me like most of the ideas on Soulside Journey are expressed in the first few songs, and that the album doesn't seem to evolve from beginning to end.

 

[Slayed Necros]

1.The Winds They Called The Dungeon Shaker
2.Oath Minus
3.Hiking Metal Punx
4.Blacksmith Of The North
5.Norway In September
6.Grizzly Trade
7.Hanging Out In Haiger
8.Dark Thrones And Black Flags
9.Launchpad To Nothingness
10.Witch Ghetto

Hiking Metal Punx Awesome. Can't fucking wait.

 

[Cythraul]

Well I guess the role of the drumwork is to create dynamics in the music. What do you think its role is?

Well, drumming in death metal in particular seems to straddle the line between what you mentioned and keeping a beat/maintaining rhythmic pulse. I just don't really see how the drumming on Soulside Journey is inappropriate in its context. I don't really care if some ideas are recycled; drums are not a lead instrument in this kind of music.

Since this debate is probably going nowhere, I'll be brief and just say that it seems to me like most of the ideas on Soulside Journey are expressed in the first few songs, and that the album doesn't seem to evolve from beginning to end.

Some albums don't really evolve, but rather consist of various elaborations on a certain approach or set of ideas. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

It's ironic that drums aren't a lead instrument in death metal, but their style is one of the more defining characteristics of the genre a lot of the time. Just goes to show that metal is fucking cool.

And I agree, I don't think albums have to evolve at all in order to give off the desired effect.

 

[Evil?]

Anyone pick up the Frostland Tapes?

 

[cookiecutter]

I thought vihris' criticism of the riffs as "unmeaningful" interesting. If you are criticizing Darkthrone/extreme metal about this are you implying that there is some universal objective meaning that other music has, but is lacking in extreme metal?

 

[Zephyrus]

At this point I ignore everything Grant has to say about extreme metal.

 

[supseudonymous]

Anyone pick up the Frostland Tapes?

Yes.

 

[S<issors]

...and?

 

[supseudonymous]

...and?

It's a spectacular be all and end all final look into the days of death metal Darkthrone.

Thought that went without saying.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

At this point I ignore everything Grant has to say about extreme metal.

I'd say it in a nicer way, but yeah sort of.

 

[Hubster]

Found this, thought it was interesting. L-R: Culto, Czral (i.e. Carl Michael Eide!!! What a fucking god), and Apollyon:

 

[skeptik]

Notice the Nocturnal patch this time.

THE NEW STUDIO ALBUM FROM THE UNDISPUTED LORD&#8217;S OF DARKNESS

Darkthrone return this autumn with their 14th album, a perfect fusion of blackened rock, metal and punk. &#8216;Dark Thrones & Black Flags&#8217; is a continuation of the Darkthrone sound, style and uncompromising attitude witnessed on the acclaimed 2007 album &#8216;F.O.A.D&#8217;.

&#8216;Dark Thrones & Black Flags&#8217; is equal parts Fenriz and Nocturno Culto. The duo share song-writing and vocal duties throughout the release (with some surprising results) and further perfect the art of &#8216;the riff&#8217;. A deceptive mastery of composition is also evident on possibly their strongest release of recent times &#8211; an album of stripped down, dirty metal.

Recorded and produced by the band themselves at Necrohell II studios, Norway, &#8216;Dark Thrones & Black Flags&#8217; is an exercise in pushing the conventions of the narrow perception of what should make black metal, becoming more timeless & faithful to its spirit than most could ever wish for in the process.

Tracklist:
The Winds They Called The Dungeon Shaker
Oath Minus
Hiking Metal Punks
Blacksmith Of The North
Norway In September
Grizzly Trade
Hanging Out In Haiger
Dark Thrones And Black Flags
Launchpad To Nothingness
Witch Ghetto

 

[zabu of nΩd]

At this point I ignore everything Grant has to say about extreme metal.

I guess it would help my credibility to avoid blanket statements about the genre. I'm still working on that.


edit: not that I don't still find something fundamentally ridiculous about the majority of extreme metal, but who am I to knock what other people like.