Definitive Shootout - Revalver vs 6505

[Metaltastic]

I'd guess A is the real amp.

But this is really just a shootout between preamps, not real recording to modelling. I'd like to see a shootout between a full Revalver chain and a good mic'd up 5150 recording. This is interesting anyway, thanks for posting!

Well the problem there is that all other things being equal, the best mic'ed cab will ALWAYS spank the best impulse, so that'd be an unfair advantage to the amp

 

[abyssofdreams]

Well the problem there is that all other things being equal, the best mic'ed cab will ALWAYS spank the best impulse, so that'd be an unfair advantage to the amp

+ any ampsim is far from reflecting any good tube head
+ any impulse is far from reflecting any good mic'ed cab

nonetheless I thought it was fun to do

 

[KeithTidd]

A is revalver, B is the amp.

I'm impressed how close they sound though.

 

[More Than Ever]

I missed the opportunity to guess, but this proves ReValver is as good if not better than the real thing. By far the best modeler currently available.

By the way... Did you guys use the 64 bit mixdown method in ReValver or the default settings???

 

[abyssofdreams]

A is revalver, B is the amp.

I'm impressed how close they sound though.

 

[abyssofdreams]

I missed the opportunity to guess, but this proves ReValver is as good if not better than the real thing. By far the best modeler currently available.

By the way... Did you guys use the 64 bit mixdown method in ReValver or the default settings???

no, didn't use the 64bit mode. does it make a difference? haven't tried it out yet.

 

[KeithTidd]

stop guessing guys, I already posted the answer

I didn't see that. I'm pretty impressed with revalver.

 

[Melodeath]

At first I thought B was the real amp, then, once I turned up my monitors, I started to hear some nastiness in B that seemed way more amp sim-ish

Thanks for doing this!

 

[Ermz]

A = Amp
B = Revalver

Next time it will be harder to tell the difference, I promise, 'cause I'm in the process of getting closer to the real deal

Aw man, posted the answer too soon . Haha, I was hoping to catch out a few more people.

Anyhow, thanks for playing. Next time round I'll be making it a poll so we can tally up how well Revalver does. After abyss gets around getting a more convincing Revalver tone we'll re-up a new test I imagine and see how far fooling everyone goes.

I agree with those of you about the full analogue chain being better. All things being equal we would also try Revalver through a real cab, if we could. I'm not sold on impulses, as abyss well knows

Cheers!

 

[More Than Ever]

no, didn't use the 64bit mode. does it make a difference? haven't tried it out yet.

Of course it makes a difference! I'd suggest using 64 bit mode next time.

 

[006]

Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the real amp clip be missing a power amp stage simulation? Unless of course a power amp stage is part of the impulse file, but that would mean (I'm guessing) that Revalver would be modeling the poweramp stage twice, which may or may not have much of an audible impact. If I'm right on either of these notions, though, I would say if there is an audible difference from either the presence of power amp simulation or double power amp simulation, it would be in the form of added "softness" which may be percieved as mud, and the "power ampless" or "single power amp" clip would seem to sound a bit clearer and tighter in my imagination. A! Fuck I don't know.

I've already done a test on here showing that the difference between a preamp module+impulse and a full amp module+impulse yields hardly any difference. Granted...that was all in ReValver, but I could see how using a real amp's output through something like a HotPlate (pre+power sections) might yield the same results vs. just the amp's preamp section.

Only one way to find out

~006

 

[Kazrog]

With all due respect, both tones are odd-sounding. Neither one sounds like a 6505 to me, but they could be usable in a mix regardless.

 

[Metaltastic]

Ok, just listened to it without reading the results, and I was right in my guesses, woohoo! I think it was mainly the saturation that felt ever so slightly more natural on a), but it was close to be sure! However, there's something odd that seems to be going on with the gain that's especially noticeable on the low-C palm mutes - seeing as how it's on both clips but my DI's and my impulses are the only common ground, I guess the fault is mine! However, both do seem overgained to me, which might also be it. How come you guys didn't reamp both guitar parts?

 

[Ermz]

With all due respect, both tones are odd-sounding. Neither one sounds like a 6505 to me, but they could be usable in a mix regardless.

Here are Marcus' DI tracks run through recabinet impulses: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/285689/Reamping/marcus-85-recan.mp3

Real 6505 head again. Maybe that will sound a bit more familiar.

 

[Ermz]

Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the real amp clip be missing a power amp stage simulation? Unless of course a power amp stage is part of the impulse file, but that would mean (I'm guessing) that Revalver would be modeling the poweramp stage twice, which may or may not have much of an audible impact. If I'm right on either of these notions, though, I would say if there is an audible difference from either the presence of power amp simulation or double power amp simulation, it would be in the form of added "softness" which may be percieved as mud, and the "power ampless" or "single power amp" clip would seem to sound a bit clearer and tighter in my imagination. A! Fuck I don't know.

I made sure to instruct Bernhard to only load the preamp module of the 6505 amp in Revalver. It was a test to see how close Revalver could truly get to what was happening with the real amp. I think the results surprised both of us.

So to recap: Both clips are using only the power stage modeling that was inherently part of Marcus' impulse. That would be a JSX power stage. Whether they were 6l6s or EL34s is a question best directed at Marcus!

I've been considering methods to get real power amp saturation into these directly recorded tones. I'm personally not happy with impulses whatsoever. Marcus' so far have sounded the closest to a real cab to me, but even they lack a certain movement and air to them. Most other sets of impulses have been beyond useless for my purposes. Bernhard has suggested blending them together in the hopes of clouding their individual weaknesses. Even so, I can't see how doing so would add the dynamics and air back into the tone.

Basic bottom line is that we need to move on and stop using the static IR technology to model cabs.

 

[Ermz]

How come you guys didn't reamp both guitar parts?

I think leaving it as a single track is more pure and you're more likely to hear the nuances when listening intently on a single source. I also wanted it to be coming out of a single speaker so that you would not be impacted by the phase relationship of your monitors. Essentially this makes it harder for Revalver to fool the listener, and we wanted to make it as tough and honest as possible.

 

[Morgan C]

Musta missed this somehow. I guessed without looking at the posts, and correctly. I've never really understood what people meant by 'plasticky' modelled tones, but B REALLY stood out as very plasticky to me. Was wondering why it was panned, a bit annoying on headphones but oh well.

 

[noarin]

I've already done a test on here showing that the difference between a preamp module+impulse and a full amp module+impulse yields hardly any difference. Granted...that was all in ReValver, but I could see how using a real amp's output through something like a HotPlate (pre+power sections) might yield the same results vs. just the amp's preamp section.

Only one way to find out

~006

I have my Brunetti Revolution at home at the moment. Want me to give it a shot? Comparison between it's pre-amp out+impulses and Palmer PDI-03 line-output + impulses?

Btw, which exact impulse was used? the on axis ones?

 

[More Than Ever]

Here's a tip, next time, try leaving the TS out of the chain, or use the BTE TSS instead of the internal TS in ReValver. It sucks.

 

[mr.L.]

Not surprised by the results, this confirms why i didn't buy revalver. There are too many things lacking compared to the real thing that would make me consider using this instead of a real (pre)amp. Too bad actually, would have loved 'a' to have been revalver hehe.