then stop feeding your rooster stuff that makes me spit white stuff when rubbed for extended periods of time
Extremes...(rant)
- Thread starter Dead Winter
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then stop feeding your rooster stuff that makes me spit white stuff when rubbed for extended periods of time
Well, here's the deal. You are right that Italy has some fucked up shit about it. Government-wise, it's probably worse than the US. No, I take that back....not probably. It IS worse than the US. Italian politicians are scum of the earth and every single person in Italy would not shed one tear if a bomb was dropped on Parliament. But society-wise? No fucking way.
Do you know WHY there is this "Alabama-style" xenophobia, as you called it? Because the floodgates of immigration have opened and as such, the crime rate has skyrocketed here. The final straw was when the Romanian guy raped and murdered the wife of a military officer in Rome. What did the gov't do? They got together all the data, determined where it was coming from, which was mostly Romania, and told them that if they are on a visa here or are here illegally and are deemed a threat to society, they will be booted out of the country. Romania complained that they were being unfairly singled out, that Italy didn't have this policy towards other countries. Italy responded in kind with, "As soon as the other countries start making trouble, we'll kick them out too. We're not going to waste our citizens' tax money on prosecution here. Let their own country handle it."
Italian people are not xenophobic. A little arrogant sometimes, but not xenophobic. They welcome all people into their country AS LONG AS THEY CAN OBEY THE RULES. If you want to come here and start causing trouble, they don't want you here and they are going to kick you out. It's that simple. The attitude here is, "If you want to come here, fine. Welcome. But if you start making a mess and not respecting our way of life, you will be forcibly removed from the premises."
I fail to see how it's a bad thing that the government is acting in the interest of it's own people instead of cowtowing to immigrants. It's the only good thing they've done in a long, long time. In any case, I wasn't speaking about the government. I was speaking about society, AND I wasn't comparing it to Italy. You can't compare the two...apples and oranges.
El Stormo
Member
dreaming neon darkspot
natures' retard
dreaming neon darkspot
natures' retard
just because a FEW guys did some shit there, that doesn't mean that romanians have to ride in the back of the bus in verona or to be kicked out from there. and FYI, the guy who killed the military officer's wife didn't rape her, that was blown up by the media to get headlines. It is an assumption Italian society is making about when an immigrant kills a woman, they MUST have raped her. You know who said that? the fucking KKK when a black man committed a crime towards a white woman. Yes, Italy and the EU openned their borders, their fault for it, now they cannot ban romanian citizens from their country nor kick them out. There is no legal way for a romanian to be ILLEGAL in Italy according to international treaty or the convention the EU is run on. After that horendous murder schools banned children of honest romanian immigrants to bring romanian food to school and eat it at lunch, they banned romanian culture from their classrooms. How is that not xenophobic? WHY is italian society and politicians putting all Romanians in the same boat. Why did my aunt get fired after that stabbing for being Romanian and married to an Italian?
And guess what, the Italian economy needs Romanians for the same reason American needs Lations. They need to do the jobs Italians don't want, and at the same time, unemployment rate in italy is sky high.
I agree with you that trouble makers should be kicked out of the country. But they can't really do that under current law, unless they want a big fat law suit at Haga. When Romania tried to deal with the gypsies and beggars in its own way, the EU screamed 'racism, holocaust, hitler' towards romania. Every time Romanian police raided some gypsy settlements at the outskirts of Bucharest that were infested with prostitutoin and organized crim, the EU called is intollerant. Now the EU SHOULD suffer the consequences of being nice to assholes. The EU even spent a few million euros in Romania in an advertisement campaign against discrimination.
Now let me make a clear distinction. Just because someone is a romanian citizen legally, that doesn't mean they are of Romanian ethnicity. Most romanians in italy are gipsies. They are of a different ethnicity with different customs and people who are very narrowminded. Ceausescu, the communist dictator of Romania, built gypsies appartement blocks and gave them all they needed for a decent living like all other romanians, and forced them into schools, and they destroyed the buildings, sold the heating devices, and burned furniture for heating. Romania has tried in many ways to deal with this problem, and now as EU members we pass this problem to the whole Europe, because Europe made us members because they wanted our market for their goods. Now they suffer the consequences.
Last, I'm really not comparing apples to oranges, I'm am comparing the flaws of two societies, and I can tell you that American society in some parts of the country are not as fucked up as Italian society is, and is not anything near what you describe in your original post. American society has its excesses, and so does Italian society. A moderate society doesn't scapegoat a whole class of people on the actions of a few. And If italians were really concerned with crime they should start with their prime minister, not with some lowly romanian that is too fucked to afford food anywhere because EUROPEAN social services, are so shitty and there are no jobs for them, and the EU didn't help Romania deal with its post communist social problems before lifting its travel restrictions.
WhiteBeastofWotan
Apostitutes!
Captain Beard
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Lunar Still
Doodle drawrer
Name any society on earth, and I'll bet it's possible to find a group of people they're scapegoating for some reason.
Romanian society. We do not scapegoat anyone because of ethnicity. We believe that the communists fucked everyone in romania too hard so we really don't give a shit about other ethnicities. Not even gypsies nowadays since a bunch of them moved out of romania into italy and britain where they pick pockets for a living. But even in romania, they weren't the group who people were blaiming for shit. we blame former commies and state security informers.
Racial/ethnic Scapegoating usually occurs in societies that are not homogenous racially or culturally. For example, in america the blacks and now the Latinos were the scapegoats because they took away jobs from the majority who happens to be white and christian. Moreover, the minorities here are wide spread geographically. Even in Washington, where 10 to twenty percent are black, I still see a lot of black folk on the street so the society is not racially homogenous.(which I think, is a good think, because people in more diverse communities tend to be more tolerant).
El Stormo
Member
Det Som Engang Var
Viking Bastard
El Stormo
Member
I understand where you're coming from, and yes, there IS a little racism here, but overall no one gives a shit about the average hard-working Romanian or Albanian. They are all welcome and are WELCOMED in Italy. And I should have made the distinction between Romanians and GYPSIES. Several of my Romanian buddies are just normal people, cool as hell, and they don't go around stabbing people. We go to concerts together and hang out just like everyone else. Plus, THEY CAN FUCKING SPEAK GREAT ENGLISH, which is more than I can say for Italians. But you can't say that it's just A FEW bad apples. Thanks to that idiot Berlusconi, he just left the door open for ANY immigrant from Romania or Albania to come in without any kind of checks.
But let's look at it from the Italian point of view. Theirs is a society of relative harmony. They are used to being able to walk down the street any time of the day or night and not have to worry about their personal safety, and whether you like it or not, the Romanian and Albanian criminals have threatened that harmony. My neighbor and good friend was stabbed 6 times a few months back by a group of Romanian thugs when he was a bouncer at a local club because he told them it was time to leave and they didn't want to leave. He was working part time to make ends meet because he was also in the military. They even came back to his house and shot at his window. Now, his military career is over and he has no feeling in his left leg anymore. In the US, we look at it as just bad luck, but Italians are not accustomed to this type of violence outside of Napoli.
Italians are very laid back people, but once you fuck with their livelihood, they will cut out the problem like a cancer and they don't give a flying fuck who it may offend. The region I live in, Friuli, in my opinion is the best region in Italy. I really wouldn't want to live anywhere else in Italy. Maybe Rome, but that's about it. But even here, in our somewhat sheltered existence there have been numerous attacks and assaults in the recent years, all by gypsies and criminals. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
Also, the EU is full of a bunch of fuckin' pansies. Italy has always been on their shitlist because Italy doesn't give two shits in hell what anyone thinks, including the EU. Italy is getting the same flack that Romania got for raiding those gypsy hovels, but Italy will continue to raid and tear down those shitholes. Find a job, find a place to live, or get the fuck out. No more living under a copse of trees with your sink and stove outside and your bed next to the road.
As for the unemployment rate...I'm a fucking immigrant, too, dude. I had no problem finding a job, and a damn good one at that. People don't WANT to work...they want everything given to them for free. This includes Italian people as well, not just immigrants. Anytime I hear some shit like, "Waaaahhh, there are no jobs in Italy!!!!", I always throw up the bullshit flag. If you're really starving, factories are always hiring and they pay decently. Not one of my friends is unemployed...Romanian, Albanian, or Italian.
Now, I don't know a single person that thinks less of someone just because they may be Romanian or Albanian upon meeting them. Romanian people are exceptionally bright and cultured for the most part and to me are no different than anyone else trying to make it in this world. But you must admit that there is a connection between 1,000,000 Romanian and Albanian immigrants and the rise in violent crime involving said immigrants. I may get some flack for this, but we are of the opinion that these people have no sense of right or wrong. There are no limits with these people...it's all about surviving like animals. They're master thieves, too. They could steal a ring off your finger if they wanted to. I'm actually somewhat impressed by that, for some sick reason, even though I don't agree with it.
The criminals and gypsies are here because Romania has very strict laws concerning theft, assault, murder, etc. It's not a surprise that the level of crime in Romania is lower than in Italy in some places. Mention this to us, and we'll laugh and tell you that it's because all the criminals are here...but only halfway joking. There is some truth to that.
It's not just mafia or Camorra, no matter how much they are stereotyped.
Det Som Engang Var
Viking Bastard
I know, I know. But it was a ranting topic. You can't rant with one line posts, unless it's like:
FUCK!
Captain Beard
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How about I SARD THE WHOLE FUCKING TOPIC BECAUSE YOU AND PAUL HAVE RUN IT INTO THE GROUND ALREADY?!
Let's make it two or three: In my mind, this whole discussion is a boat with wings, but this boat is an aircraft carrier shaped like a brick, on fire, and trying to glide through a volcanic cloud. IT IS GOING DOWN HARD, ABANDON IT NOW.
Let's make it two or three: In my mind, this whole discussion is a boat with wings, but this boat is an aircraft carrier shaped like a brick, on fire, and trying to glide through a volcanic cloud. IT IS GOING DOWN HARD, ABANDON IT NOW.
Just for the record, flying whale, I think you're a really cool guy and I don't put you in the same category just because you may be Romanian. THAT'S xenophobia.
You mentioned Verona...I take it some of your family lives there as well. The Veneto and Friuli-Venezia Giulia regions are really, REALLY intolerant of people who do not conform or try to change their way of life. I wouldn't be surprised if you really did run into some dumbass xenophobes here, but for the most part it's the same thing: if you want to live here, fine. Obey our rules. If not, we'll kick you out.
It's not just Eastern Euro countries, either. They do it to everyone...Muslims, Moroccans, Tunisians, other African immigrants, etc. They have no problem with immigration as long as they don't try and force their own personal beliefs and customs upon Italian society and change it. The US is much more tolerant of this simply because it is a melting-pot society. On the flip side of the coin, immigration is fine here, as long as they conform to Italian customs and way of life. Italians don't want to be a melting pot society. They feel they are losing their own culture to outside influences when they have to change their way of life to conform to immigration.
You mentioned Verona...I take it some of your family lives there as well. The Veneto and Friuli-Venezia Giulia regions are really, REALLY intolerant of people who do not conform or try to change their way of life. I wouldn't be surprised if you really did run into some dumbass xenophobes here, but for the most part it's the same thing: if you want to live here, fine. Obey our rules. If not, we'll kick you out.
It's not just Eastern Euro countries, either. They do it to everyone...Muslims, Moroccans, Tunisians, other African immigrants, etc. They have no problem with immigration as long as they don't try and force their own personal beliefs and customs upon Italian society and change it. The US is much more tolerant of this simply because it is a melting-pot society. On the flip side of the coin, immigration is fine here, as long as they conform to Italian customs and way of life. Italians don't want to be a melting pot society. They feel they are losing their own culture to outside influences when they have to change their way of life to conform to immigration.
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