GMD Poll: Top Ten Albums of 2002

[Somethingface]

first off, you dont sound like anyone who should be speaking about "academia". honestly, i think you proved that in the last few hours. you seem to have a problem processing even the simplest things like the word "support". Academia, lulz.

telling other people to listen to/recommending a band doesn't mean that youre also asking them to support said band? So you're telling them to not support the band, but to just steal their shit. Anyway, how in the world do you not understand that the only way to support a band isnt by buying their stuff?

I will say it again: the "art" and the "artist" are two separate things. There is no "support" to the actual person committing the acts by merely listening to or recommending that others listen to said artist's work. It is a slippery slope argument to go even further and suggest that it also means that a person, by doing those things, is agreeing with the artist's own personal acts/views.

Now it may be different if you could provide actual analysis that the "art" itself is pro-paedophilia, then we can discuss how it does this and what it means, and if it is morally repugnant etc. But you have not done that at this stage.

 

[CiG]

There is no "support" to the actual person committing the acts by merely listening to or recommending that others listen to said artist's work.

Doesn't this fly in the face of marketing, advertisements, etc?

 

[Somethingface]

Doesn't this fly in the face of marketing, advertisements, etc?

I don't know, does it? How about even mentioning the band's name on a forum and drawing attention to them? What about buying CDs from the same distro and/or same record labels that are also profiting from the band's art?

 

[CiG]

I don't know, does it? How about even mentioning the band's name on a forum and drawing attention to them? What about buying CDs from the same distro and/or same record labels that are also profiting from the band's art?

Reductio ad absurdum. What about the CD presser who presses your favourite Kylie Minogue CD-single as well as the newest Zyklonkrieg 88 compilation, etc.

Directly promoting a band via a recommendation is pretty different.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

yes, but like i said it was recorded in '96 and he went back and erased that dude from their work. Bravo to him.

"i never said anything about a business move" ... "iommi didnt want a child rapist attached to his name" ... lolwut. Do you think that a multimillionaire artists name isnt a part of their "business'? Or do you genuinely think Iommi was disgusted with the guy and didnt want to have anything to do with him .... *aka "virtue signaling"? If so then why does my stance seem to give you trouble?

Did Iommi draw attention to himself in a public campaign to boycott all albums with Holland's name attached, and become some kind of anti-pedophilia crusader? No, he simply decided to not use Holland's recordings for his own album. Having moral standards isn't virtue signalling. Preaching at people on an internet forum and calling them pedophiles because they choose to enjoy and list an album made by a pedophile is virtue signalling.

 

[CiG]

A pedo would say that.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Reductio ad absurdum. What about the CD presser who presses your favourite Kylie Minogue CD-single as well as the newest Zyklonkrieg 88 compilation, etc.

Directly promoting a band via a recommendation is pretty different.

Record labels and distros drop acts all the time when there's enough controversy behind them. The idea that listing an album by a pedophile on a U-M top 10 yearly list is any kind of endorsement or apology for said pedophile's actions is just pure pearl clutching.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

A pedo would say that.

Would they?

Disgusting.

Also not surprised by the activist bit, seems like everywhere you look these days there's an overlap of creepy (if not downright illegal) sexual interests and political activism. People who set themselves up as the moral and ethical arbiters of society often have such a fucked up personal life that they live for other people because if they stopped and actually looked at themselves they'd never leave their bedrooms again.

I get trying to be understanding of what people do or go through, but I absolutely draw the line at hebephiles and pedophiles.

 

[CiG]

Damn I was on point there. Activists are terrible people.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I will say it again: the "art" and the "artist" are two separate things.

Dude, please stop repeating the most basic of points you're trying to make. It didnt even need to be mentioned once.

There is no "support" to the actual person committing the acts by merely listening to or recommending that others listen to said artist's work.

"im a fan of the band and recommend them to everyone but i dont support them"

okay

It is a slippery slope argument to go even further and suggest that it also means that a person, by doing those things, is agreeing with the artist's own personal acts/views.

I'm saying i refuse to support that artist because of who he is. And for the 5th time being a sick fuck pedophile isnt just some average "personal view". And also this isnt, or at least wasn't an argument. I was just pointing out why that scumbags album wont be making my list. Pretty simple isn't it? but here you are trying to make some kind of argument out of it lol. Why does this bother you? This to me looks like you having no problem with supporting a pedo and for some reason need my validation or something. You enjoy supporting a child diddler, i get it. Can we move on?

Now it may be different if you could provide actual analysis that the "art" itself is pro-paedophilia, then we can discuss how it does this and what it means, and if it is morally repugnant etc. But you have not done that at this stage.

See this is what i mean again. Either you really have the thought process of a pretentious 3rd grader or you're just trying to troll me and im honestly hoping it's the latter. Not only did you bring up the actual music here again(do i need to go back and quote every time i actually mentioned the music?), but you went ahead and tied some ridiculous request to it which has zero to do with what i have said. When the fuck did i criticize the actual "art" in any of my posts? Again, you have no problem supporting a child diddler, i do. So again, please can we move on or do i need to say YOU WIN or something?

Preaching at people on an internet forum and calling them pedophiles because they choose to enjoy and list an album made by a pedophile is virtue signalling.

i never called anyone in here a pedophile you low functioning moron. And regardless of how you try to twist it up in your warped little mind, what actually happened was that i simply said why i wont be listing them here and for some reason you guys needed to tell me about how you feelz or whatever lol.

I'm not continuing the Iommi thing with you because clearly your mental retardation is getting in the way.

 

[Somethingface]

Can we move on?

Yeah OK. I will agree to disagree.

 

[CiG]

How did we not see it before...

 

[no country for old wainds]

inquisition’s boring music is a bigger obstacle for me tbh

 

[CiG]

NO COUNTRY WITH THE BANTZ!

 

[alex76]

Aren't we rating the music itself, not the moral aspects of its members? This is a fucking genre that venerates Satan (and rape and murder and *GASP* racism/sexism/homophobia/men's rights/capitalism/a home-cooked meal/etc.), if I am not mistaken? Are we actually saying Satan here is a cool guy and all? I mean, Satan has done some pretty fucked up shit...

 

[Phylactery]

The same happens in prisons, you have literal scums of the earth that have raped and murdered but they won’t tolerate paedophiles. As if they’re somehow better human beings and their crimes aren’t as bad.

As HamburgerBoy said, Dagon was never charged with having sexual relations with minors, he was just found in possession of child porn. Pretty bad yeah, but I can’t see how this can put you off the band while still liking others such as Burzum, Dissection and Emperor who committed murder (unprovoked to boot in the case of Jon and Faust). Not to mention some of the extreme NSBM acts out there.

 

[CiG]

Aren't we rating the music itself, not the moral aspects of its members? This is a fucking genre that venerates Satan (and rape and murder and *GASP* racism/sexism/homophobia/men's rights/capitalism/a home-cooked meal/etc.), if I am not mistaken? Are we actually saying Satan here is a cool guy and all? I mean, Satan has done some pretty fucked up shit...

I was unconvinced until you got to men's rights and capitalism, now I get it.

Also: Satan isn't real you spastic, Dagon's kiddy porn collection is.

 

[Allfader]

As HamburgerBoy said, Dagon was never charged with having sexual relations with minors, he was just found in possession of child porn. Pretty bad yeah, but I can’t see how this can put you off the band while still liking others such as Burzum, Dissection and Emperor who committed murder (unprovoked to boot in the case of Jon and Faust). Not to mention some of the extreme NSBM acts out there.

My point exactly.

Before all that Dagon shit came out, most of the black metal scene was praising Inquisition to no end. People will pretend that, after years/decades of enjoying their albums, putting on top 10 lists, buying their albums and merch and sharing their music on social media/friends, then they just stopped liking it or those albums stopped being good in black metal? C'mon.

I don't even own the Inquisition album, but I can't deny it's damn good black metal. Some Judas Priest fans should stop buying their albums and going to the gigs altogether, right? I've never seen anyone saying "I can't enjoy In The Nightside Eclipse anymore and I won't call it one of the best black metal albums ever again because Faust". Didn't Ozzy cheat on his wife? People will stop listening his solo albums or Black Sabbath altogether because the guy has some questionable moral principles and did something wrong, even punishable by law in many countries?

Moral crusaders should be a bit more consequent and throw all their metal albums about killing/raping/exterminating people in any form because it's bad, it's evil and thus, it's not right.

 

[no country for old wainds]

i don't think TB ever said inquisition's music stopped being good though, he's made this point like a dozen times now. i agree that it's annoying when people do that shit though, like when all these people suddenly decided louis ck isn't funny. i also agree that if we start analysing the moral compasses of iconic metal bands there's gonna be quite a few albums that end up being off limits, and that it's kind of a pointless stance when applied to making best of lists on a forum with like 20 regular members lol, i don't exactly think listing inquisition on here is gonna benefit dagon in any way. who knows though, maybe one day this place blows up and we become tastemakers for the entire metal internet and historians remember us as the needledrop of metaldom and dagon uses his newfound riches to buy child sex slaves.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

This is a fucking genre that venerates Satan (and rape and murder and *GASP* racism/sexism/homophobia/men's rights/capitalism/a home-cooked meal/etc.), if I am not mistaken? Are we actually saying Satan here is a cool guy and all? I mean, Satan has done some pretty fucked up shit...

im sorry that you cant see the difference between the "theatrics" of a music genre and the actual act of committing the crime. Cannibal Corpse singing about fucking you in the ass with a knife =/= a guy who has thousands of underage pornograp0hy videos etc. Do i really need to break that down and point out the actual difference there? wow. That's like saying i shouldnt watch horror movies or something. Im honestly kind of surprised at how much idiocy that you guys are showcasing here.

As HamburgerBoy said, Dagon was never charged with having sexual relations with minors,

yes but you dont think someone who was so addicted to child porn that he had years and years of videos in his caches isnt someone who is a potential threat to children?

The same happens in prisons, you have literal scums of the earth that have raped and murdered but they won’t tolerate paedophiles. As if they’re somehow better human beings and their crimes aren’t as bad.

Well considering what happened to Nicki im not surprised you;re taking this stance. People who have "raped" others are not in general population and do not walk the main line. They literally have to be protected from the other prisoners. They are usually housed in the same exact place that pedophiles are. Was it any different from your experience? Or did they not give you any time?