Looks like we actually have a good amount of lists, and I'll be ending this one Saturday morning.
no country for old wainds
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- Nov 23, 2002
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10) Edward Scissorhands (Dir. Tim Burton)
probably more tragic given that the real life edward opened his shitty salon and allowed normies to exploit his talents for the creation of tacky mass-market novelty fare for the rest of his days. not that timmy was ever as much of an outsider as he liked to think, but in the early days his macabre theatrics were a means to realising a vision rather than being mere schtick. this is one of his best, both an amusing satire of suburbia and a sincere romance between innocent misfits.
9) King of New York (Dir. Abel Ferrara)
a hellaciously violent, uber-quotable action classic of masterful formal control and detail, shot through with a disquieting, fatalistic beauty. double bill it with Cosmopolis, another suffocating modern vampire movie in which an "undead" "businessman" attempts to reawaken himself, "nobly" putting a wrench in the inscrutable system of an alienating nu-new york that's corporatised and commodified to abstraction.
8) Days of Being Wild (Dir. Wong Kar-Wai)
days of being wild was intended to be the beginning of a serial, which explains why the final act is such a fucking nonsensical mess. its high placement here is a testament to the poetry of the first hour, one of wong's definitive evocations of time, memory, longing and loneliness. it's also notable for starring a holy quintinity of korean film stars: andy lau, maggie cheung, tony leung, jackie cheung and carina lau. if the classical film star in all its glory has been a dying breed for decades in today's hollywood, this film showcases how the tradition was still alive in the east.
7) Metropolitan (Dir. Whit Stillman)
posits that growing up is to be dragged from our special little bubble into the big mediocre world and hating how They embrace it and thrive, 'til we realise our notions of the Other—sex, class, rival suitors--are coloured by misplaced idealisation, paranoia and resentment, and our art, idealism and snark were defence mechanisms more than badges of personhood (and we prefer ‘the story of babar’ to ‘war & peace’ anyway), and maybe casting off our bunuelian pretensions is the path to the green ray transcendence. if you dismiss this because the characters are obnoxious, it's probably successfully satirising you.
6) Close-Up (Dir. Abbas Kiarostami)
splintering the meta-fictions of mohsen makhmalbaf's terrific a moment of innocence still further, this is a film in the makhmalbaf style about a man on trial for imitating makhmalbaf--a perfect analog for a director who probably began his career doing the same. no other filmmaker is so honest about the performative quality of filmmaking, so unwilling to hide behind a pseudo-objective camera, and there's real sensitivity, pathos and wisdom in the way kiarostami tells the story of a man who wants nothing more than to disappear into the role of director.
5) Total Recall (Dir. Paul Verhoeven)
a wish fulfilment fantasy within a wish-fulfilment fantasy, one which somehow improves the more its effects and acting become dated because it enhances a crucial sense of artifice. it's one of the greatest satires ever to come out of hollywood, bursting with character and wild genre thrills but never quite allowing you to forget that the real protagonist is you.
4) Gremlins 2: The New Batch (Dir. Joe Dante)
the original gremlins already mischievously revelled in the destruction of that small-town spielberg magic, but steve and the warner brothers had dante on the leash. that wasn't the case second time around, as the desperate studio only managed to lure a reluctant dante into helming the sequel by offering him full creative control and triple his original budget. this was like giving a machine gun to a retarded child (or, y'know, a gremlin), and he readily ejaculated his tashlin-meets-looney tunes id onto the gremlins universe, unleashing a maniacal fuck you to hollywood's disingenuous anti-capitalist narratives and voracious appetite for sequels. a franchised family movie that's so anarchic it could almost be called avant-garde--we'll probably never see the like again.
3) Trust (Dir. Hal Hartley)
of all the filmmakers who utilise a distancing effect through their dialogue (lanthimos, greenaway and wes anderson among them), hartley may be the most empathetic and disarming. contrary to what one might expect, his self-consciously artificial understatement seems to be drawn from a well of deep feeling toward his characters, and a film of so many simple, familiar setups is transformed into something original and affecting by the way it constantly seems to be teetering on the edge of apocalypse, desperately clinging onto snatches of meaning in the face of a great malaise. a movie, and central performance by adrienne shelley (who was sadly murdered the following decade), that inspires pure love if you hit its wavelength.
2) Wild At Heart (Dir. David Lynch)
i'll cede to my former colleague chuck williamson on this one: "In Wild at Heart, Lynch crafts a loud and unapologetically vulgar portrait of his homeland as a surreal, southern-fried wasteland, a honky-tonk hellhole viewed through the prism of art-damaged Americana: pulp crime fiction, primetime soaps, Elvis Presley, and L. Frank Baum. Its vision of America in perpetual decay is unnerving, idiosyncratic, and deeply personal. But beyond the excessive brutality and pop-culture pastiche, Lynch’s film remains a woozily romantic tale of two lovers — reckless and hopelessly naive — speeding through a rundown Emerald City like wounded sparrows flapping their wings against the ever-encroaching darkness. As with all things Lynch, it is tender and terrible in equal measure."
1) Miller's Crossing (Dir. Joen Coen, Ethan Coen)
while i've been in love with this movie for over a decade (for reasons i'm not sure i fully understand to this day), i don't necessarily disagree with some of TB's criticisms, and i know a few people with tastes generally similar to mine who feel the same way (pompey and my dad among them). my feeling is that it's not the film that's fake and pretentious so much as the characters, and that this is intentional. tom is a deeply ethical guy playing at being mean, and the centrepiece scene hinges on that: a moment of introspection, of crisis, when he comes to an understanding of who he is and who he is not. there's even a homoerotic undercurrent to the relationship between tom and leo which seems to fuel a lot of the decision-making here (not the only gay relationship in the film). this isn't what a lot of people want from a mob movie, and i get that, but i don't think it's trying to be the godfather or goodfellas (obviously, if it is, it's a failure). it's more like a dashiel hammett novel brought to life. the coens' conception of the mob seems deliberately cartoonish, a lot of ridiculous posturing and bravado and artifice, and what separates the 'good guys' from the bad is that beneath that artifice swirls a lot of messy, drunken emotions they don't really know what to do with, and a stubborn sense of pride and morality they can't bring themselves to betray.
and i would argue that it's every bit as masterfully directed as anything else they've done; even by the coens' high standards the mise-en-scene is meticulous and gorgeous, and so many audiovisual details and motifs are a manifestation of the characters' inner struggles and contradictions. the hat blowing in the wind is so much more than just a hat blowing in the wind, and that's cinema in a nutshell, to me. but one man's Cinema is another man's empty, tryhard pastiche, and that seems particularly true with the coens--i don't always fall on the former side, myself.
probably more tragic given that the real life edward opened his shitty salon and allowed normies to exploit his talents for the creation of tacky mass-market novelty fare for the rest of his days. not that timmy was ever as much of an outsider as he liked to think, but in the early days his macabre theatrics were a means to realising a vision rather than being mere schtick. this is one of his best, both an amusing satire of suburbia and a sincere romance between innocent misfits.
9) King of New York (Dir. Abel Ferrara)
a hellaciously violent, uber-quotable action classic of masterful formal control and detail, shot through with a disquieting, fatalistic beauty. double bill it with Cosmopolis, another suffocating modern vampire movie in which an "undead" "businessman" attempts to reawaken himself, "nobly" putting a wrench in the inscrutable system of an alienating nu-new york that's corporatised and commodified to abstraction.
8) Days of Being Wild (Dir. Wong Kar-Wai)
days of being wild was intended to be the beginning of a serial, which explains why the final act is such a fucking nonsensical mess. its high placement here is a testament to the poetry of the first hour, one of wong's definitive evocations of time, memory, longing and loneliness. it's also notable for starring a holy quintinity of korean film stars: andy lau, maggie cheung, tony leung, jackie cheung and carina lau. if the classical film star in all its glory has been a dying breed for decades in today's hollywood, this film showcases how the tradition was still alive in the east.
7) Metropolitan (Dir. Whit Stillman)
posits that growing up is to be dragged from our special little bubble into the big mediocre world and hating how They embrace it and thrive, 'til we realise our notions of the Other—sex, class, rival suitors--are coloured by misplaced idealisation, paranoia and resentment, and our art, idealism and snark were defence mechanisms more than badges of personhood (and we prefer ‘the story of babar’ to ‘war & peace’ anyway), and maybe casting off our bunuelian pretensions is the path to the green ray transcendence. if you dismiss this because the characters are obnoxious, it's probably successfully satirising you.
6) Close-Up (Dir. Abbas Kiarostami)
splintering the meta-fictions of mohsen makhmalbaf's terrific a moment of innocence still further, this is a film in the makhmalbaf style about a man on trial for imitating makhmalbaf--a perfect analog for a director who probably began his career doing the same. no other filmmaker is so honest about the performative quality of filmmaking, so unwilling to hide behind a pseudo-objective camera, and there's real sensitivity, pathos and wisdom in the way kiarostami tells the story of a man who wants nothing more than to disappear into the role of director.
5) Total Recall (Dir. Paul Verhoeven)
a wish fulfilment fantasy within a wish-fulfilment fantasy, one which somehow improves the more its effects and acting become dated because it enhances a crucial sense of artifice. it's one of the greatest satires ever to come out of hollywood, bursting with character and wild genre thrills but never quite allowing you to forget that the real protagonist is you.
4) Gremlins 2: The New Batch (Dir. Joe Dante)
the original gremlins already mischievously revelled in the destruction of that small-town spielberg magic, but steve and the warner brothers had dante on the leash. that wasn't the case second time around, as the desperate studio only managed to lure a reluctant dante into helming the sequel by offering him full creative control and triple his original budget. this was like giving a machine gun to a retarded child (or, y'know, a gremlin), and he readily ejaculated his tashlin-meets-looney tunes id onto the gremlins universe, unleashing a maniacal fuck you to hollywood's disingenuous anti-capitalist narratives and voracious appetite for sequels. a franchised family movie that's so anarchic it could almost be called avant-garde--we'll probably never see the like again.
3) Trust (Dir. Hal Hartley)
of all the filmmakers who utilise a distancing effect through their dialogue (lanthimos, greenaway and wes anderson among them), hartley may be the most empathetic and disarming. contrary to what one might expect, his self-consciously artificial understatement seems to be drawn from a well of deep feeling toward his characters, and a film of so many simple, familiar setups is transformed into something original and affecting by the way it constantly seems to be teetering on the edge of apocalypse, desperately clinging onto snatches of meaning in the face of a great malaise. a movie, and central performance by adrienne shelley (who was sadly murdered the following decade), that inspires pure love if you hit its wavelength.
2) Wild At Heart (Dir. David Lynch)
i'll cede to my former colleague chuck williamson on this one: "In Wild at Heart, Lynch crafts a loud and unapologetically vulgar portrait of his homeland as a surreal, southern-fried wasteland, a honky-tonk hellhole viewed through the prism of art-damaged Americana: pulp crime fiction, primetime soaps, Elvis Presley, and L. Frank Baum. Its vision of America in perpetual decay is unnerving, idiosyncratic, and deeply personal. But beyond the excessive brutality and pop-culture pastiche, Lynch’s film remains a woozily romantic tale of two lovers — reckless and hopelessly naive — speeding through a rundown Emerald City like wounded sparrows flapping their wings against the ever-encroaching darkness. As with all things Lynch, it is tender and terrible in equal measure."
1) Miller's Crossing (Dir. Joen Coen, Ethan Coen)
while i've been in love with this movie for over a decade (for reasons i'm not sure i fully understand to this day), i don't necessarily disagree with some of TB's criticisms, and i know a few people with tastes generally similar to mine who feel the same way (pompey and my dad among them). my feeling is that it's not the film that's fake and pretentious so much as the characters, and that this is intentional. tom is a deeply ethical guy playing at being mean, and the centrepiece scene hinges on that: a moment of introspection, of crisis, when he comes to an understanding of who he is and who he is not. there's even a homoerotic undercurrent to the relationship between tom and leo which seems to fuel a lot of the decision-making here (not the only gay relationship in the film). this isn't what a lot of people want from a mob movie, and i get that, but i don't think it's trying to be the godfather or goodfellas (obviously, if it is, it's a failure). it's more like a dashiel hammett novel brought to life. the coens' conception of the mob seems deliberately cartoonish, a lot of ridiculous posturing and bravado and artifice, and what separates the 'good guys' from the bad is that beneath that artifice swirls a lot of messy, drunken emotions they don't really know what to do with, and a stubborn sense of pride and morality they can't bring themselves to betray.
and i would argue that it's every bit as masterfully directed as anything else they've done; even by the coens' high standards the mise-en-scene is meticulous and gorgeous, and so many audiovisual details and motifs are a manifestation of the characters' inner struggles and contradictions. the hat blowing in the wind is so much more than just a hat blowing in the wind, and that's cinema in a nutshell, to me. but one man's Cinema is another man's empty, tryhard pastiche, and that seems particularly true with the coens--i don't always fall on the former side, myself.
1. miller's crossing
2. wild at heart
3. trust
4. gremlins 2
5. total recall
6. close-up
7. metropolitan
8. days of being wild
9. king of new york
10. edward scissorhands
2. wild at heart
3. trust
4. gremlins 2
5. total recall
6. close-up
7. metropolitan
8. days of being wild
9. king of new york
10. edward scissorhands
no country for old wainds
Active Member
- Nov 23, 2002
- 26,696
- 9,669
- 113
lol i think if you add a half star to my ratings they're more in line with a typical scale. the reason is my 5s and 4.5s are actually just my 5s split into two, which pushes everything else down. a lot of those RYM ratings are also verrrrrrrry outdated though, so sometimes it'll just be that i've rewatched and reevaluated something but not updated the rating. i need to sort through them at some point.
HBB is even more extreme with his music ratings. Well, I guess the extremity is relative of course, but I've said it about myself many times that I tend to over rate on RYM.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
I think he just mentioned them side by side because they're basically two of the genre landmarks.
Anyway, the most realistic mob movie of 1990 is obviously Dick Tracy you cucks.
We have 14 lists, fucking nice one. You faggots really turned out and it only required me to go two weeks over the deadline.
Would love a list from @RadicalThrasher before I close this up this weekend though.
We have 14 lists, fucking nice one. You faggots really turned out and it only required me to go two weeks over the deadline.
Would love a list from @RadicalThrasher before I close this up this weekend though.
RadicalThrasher
Active Member
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
i find it kind of funny that foreigners are amused with cheesy crime flicks that are literally cartoon takes of what was actually going on here ... ala King of New York. That movie is cheesy as fuck and feels like it was written by someone who never actually stepped foot in the inner cities. And the acting in that film is atrocious too. I dont know, maybe its just cringey to people who actually live here and know how it actually is. It just blows my mind that anyone would include that shitfest in their top 10
Slammed
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- Jun 15, 2017
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Sounds like the way 90% of America react to Crocodile Dundee.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Whattt? you mean most Australians aren't shirtless vest wearing, bowie knife toting crocodile wrestling badasses?
Slammed
Active Member
- Jun 15, 2017
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challenge_everything
Active Member
Because Home Alone and TMNT provide much more nuanced depictions of New York
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
those are comedies. And yes, Home Alone is much more closer to reality than King of New York or even your beloved Millers Crossing. Wont even bother responding to you bringing up TMNT here, smh.Because Home Alone and TMNT provide much more nuanced depictions of New York
challenge_everything
Active Member
Exactly, but criticising King of New York for its lack of realism is equally absurd.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
no, comparing TMNT ... which is a comedy about walking talking ninja turtles to a movie that's trying to depict the crime ridden streets of New York is not comparable.
"BUT MOVIES AREN'T REAL" is gonna be your next response?
"BUT MOVIES AREN'T REAL" is gonna be your next response?
challenge_everything
Active Member
No, just that your criticisms of King of New York miss the point of what it's trying to be, it's not "trying to depict the crime ridden street life", at least not in any realistic way. It's an exploitation film at its heart, bordering on vaudeville.
Yeah I don't agree that just because they're mob movies they owe the audience some kind of realism. I don't really think of films through that lens in general. I couldn't care less about what New York is or was really like, it's a movie not a documentary.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
King of New York is a hilariously bad modern wannabe "gangsta" film to me, not a mobster movie. But its ok, i realize that foreigners are amused and fascinated with the cartoony fake take of how things actually are out here.
