Greatest Death Metal Release (no bullshit 'top ten' lists!)

[all_sins_undone]

perhaps it's just that i dont feel the need for perfect grammar on an online forum? you seem to have no problem understanding me, so stfu, it has nothing to do with laziness.

 

[Scourge of God]

The part within the body of the original post that says, "What's your most beloved death metal album, and why does it get all the love?". Maybe my grasp of the English language is a little askew here, but that sounds suspiciously similar to "What's your favorite death metal album?" to me. And somehow I got the impression that he wasn't talking only to you when he asked that.

It's not my fault that the original post is utterly contradictory. In the circumstances, it makes far more sense to accept the topic at face value and ignore the incoherent attempts at clarification where none was needed.

Additionally, "greatness" is entirely subjective.

Perceptions of greatness may be, but greatness itself either is or it is not. The fact that many people are too stupid or too socially conditioned to understand what is good and what is not simply isn't a relevant point.

 

[all_sins_undone]

Perceptions of greatness may be, but greatness itself either is or it is not. The fact that many people are too stupid or too socially conditioned to understand what is good and what is not simply isn't a relevant point.

greatness is not a noun, it's an adjective. adjectives are used to describe something BASED (holy shit i found my shift key) on a person's (or group of persons) perception of that thing.

and also, what makes you the exception? were you born and raised in a cave with no social conditioning whatsoever?

 

[Lothlorien]

Perceptions of greatness may be, but greatness itself either is or it is not. The fact that many people are too stupid or too socially conditioned to understand what is good and what is not simply isn't a relevant point.

Who are you to claim what is great? The way you are talking you seem to be one of those too stupid and too socially conditioned people.

 

[Scourge of God]

perhaps it's just that i dont feel the need for perfect grammar on an online forum? you seem to have no problem understanding me, so stfu, it has nothing to do with laziness.

It's an eighth of an inch from the 'A' to the 'Shift' - an eighth of an inch that is the difference from appearing reasonably intelligent and seeming to be an adolescent with a tenuous grasp of English. If you're too lazy to move a finger an eighth of an inch, you're probably too lazy to do the mental heavy lifting it takes to have opinions that hold water, a judgment amply borne out by the lazy solipsistic bullshit you continually espouse.

 

[Scourge of God]

greatness is not a noun, it's an adjective.

I beg your pardon?

adjectives are used to describe something BASED (holy shit i found my shift key) on a person's (or group of persons) perception of that thing.

Leaving aside the fact that 'greatness' is, in fact, a noun, adjectives are not applied only to perceptions, but to statements of fact as well. "Hard" is an adjective, yet to say "A diamond is hard" is not an individual perception, but a statment of scientifically demonstrable fact.

and also, what makes you the exception? were you born and raised in a cave with no social conditioning whatsoever?

Like most intelligent and effective people, I'm aware of the social conditioning I experience and work to actively overcome it.

 

[derbeder]

greatness is not a noun, it's an adjective. adjectives are used to describe something BASED (holy shit i found my shift key) on a person's (or group of persons) perception of that thing.

When I say "That is a square block", I'm talking about the shape of the block I'm demonstrating. I am not talking about how I perceive the block. I perceive the block as square and make my assertion on the basis of the justification that is due to my perceiving it as square. For observational adjectives (having to do with shape, color, taste, pitch etc.), it is roughly correct to say that what one says using these adjective is based on one's perception of something having those observational characteristics (of being square, red and so on). Not every sentence with an adjective has this feature, for instance, the mathematical adjective "even". Sentences such as "2 is an even number" are not based on their justification on perceptions of the number 2. What their justification is really based on is a tough issue, but it will have something to do with the notion of mathematical proof.

 

[all_sins_undone]

I beg your pardon?/

once again, you're nitpicking but completely avoiding the subject at hand. greatness, as shown in your link, can be used as both an adjective and as a noun.

great is just one of conjugated forms of "greatness", but i didn't have to tell you that, did i?

http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/greatness

Leaving aside the fact that 'greatness' is, in fact, a noun, adjectives are not applied only to perceptions, but to statements of fact as well. "Hard" is an adjective, yet to say "A diamond is hard" is not an individual perception, but a statment of scientifically demonstrable fact.

of course, but what we as individuals perceive as hard is not scientific at all. also, it might be hard to prove the quality of a music album scientifically.

Like most intelligent and effective people, I'm aware of the social conditioning I experience and work to actively overcome it.

good for you. but denying your very human instinct to socialize might not be your best idea.

 

[all_sins_undone]

When I say "That is a square block", I'm talking about the shape of the block I'm demonstrating. I am not talking about how I perceive the block.

yes, you are. the shape of the block is due to your perception of it.

I perceive the block as square and make my assertion on the basis of that perception.

ah there we go.

For observational adjectives (having to do with shape, color, taste, pitch etc.), it is roughly correct to say that what one says using these adjective is based on one's perception of something having those observational characteristics (of being square, red and so on).

agreed.

Not every sentence with an adjective has this feature, for instance, the mathematical adjective "even". Sentences such as "2 is an even number" are not based on their justification on perceptions of the number 2. What their justification is really based on is a tough issue, but it will have something to do with the notion of mathematical proof.

agreed again. if perceiving music was as objective as mathematical proof, there wouldn't be discussion.

 

[S<issors]

if i have to chose just one album, it hast to be 'Cause Of Death' from Obituary.

The album art for that is also the cover of a collection of Lovecraft stories (it's a section of the "Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and Macabre" cover that was also used for one of the shorter ones...) which I think is pretty cool.


@ Scourge and all the guys arguing with him:

Sorry for the confusion. Let me clarify. "Greatness" is indeed a matter of perception: I'm asking people what, IN THEIR OPINION, is the greatest death metal album ever released. "Great" can mean a number of different things (it could even mean "large," technically speaking, although that obviously isn't what I intended) and I could see how you might interpret it as "influential," "groundbreaking," "critically acclaimed" or whatever, but in my original post I clarified what I wanted, and it wasn't any of those things.

TBH I mostly used "greatest" to try to break the pattern of "FAVORITE" threads; what I wanted out of this was a little different than your typical fav thread (just one item, some explanation) so I tried to vary the title.

Anyway, it's very difficult to define what makes an album good, or great, and as this is a highly subjective subject all I was seeking was people's disparate opinions. Frankly, I wouldn't give a shit if someone slapped up "COME CLARITY!" (although I'd probably assume they were kidding). Please climb off your high horse and join the friendly conversation on the ground.

...you are right about "greatness" being a noun, though

 

[derbeder]

The fact that a person's justifications for making a statement are based on his perceptions does not mean that the subject matter of the statement is not objective.

There are large philosophical issues here folks. I doubt a death metal thread is a good place to properly discuss these.

 

[Seance]

lol what's new

 

[derbeder]

the inverted cross on my forehead is new

 

[Scourge of God]

once again, you're nitpicking but completely avoiding the subject at hand. greatness, as shown in your link, can be used as both an adjective and as a noun.

Actually, my link shows that 'greatness' (as with any English word with the suffix -ness) is a noun and only a noun. The adjective form is 'great' (with it's variants 'greater' and 'greatest'). This is grammar 101, kid. Adjectives function as descriptors of people, things and concepts. 'Greatness' is not a descriptive term, it is a concept in itself, ergo, a noun.

of course, but what we as individuals perceive as hard is not scientific at all.

What individuals perceive isn't the relevant question. A diamond remains hard in an absolute sense regardless of whether a given individual perceives it to be so or not.

also, it might be hard to prove the quality of a music album scientifically.

That's because 'quality' isn't a scientific concept. You can't 'scientifically' prove that the PRC isn't a democratic, but the truth of that statement can be demonstrated nonetheless.

 

[Seance]

:'mortal:

 

[Scourge of God]

yes, you are. the shape of the block is due to your perception of it.

No, the shape of the block is innate to the block, and exists independently of any perception of the block. You're confusing sign and signified.

 

[S<issors]

Either we're much more intelligent or much less intelligent than we appear.

Also I think most people can agree that "great" is such a vague term that it is almost entirely subjective. You could winnow it down to something measurable (ie. I declare that in this context I consider "great" to be defined by technical skill, which is one of the relatively few quantifiable factors in music)... and oh, hey, I *did* winnow it down in my first post, albeit not to something measurable.

Please stop arguing about the thread title and post/discuss replies (politely ffs), I find some of the choices so far to be fairly interesting.

 

[reality is but a dream]

have any of you guys checked out GOROD yet?

i cant see any death fan not liking this

http://www.myspace.com/gorod

 

[S<issors]

Also:

Besides, who cares what other people like?

^Me. That would be the purpose of this thread, actually. Perhaps you should take your intellectual rigor elsewhere if you find the discussion "worthless."

All that matters is what is good in reality.

What arbitrates what's "good in reality?" Public opinion? People's personal opinion? God? You? Some crazy guru in a cave in Finland?

 

[Scourge of God]

Reality is the arbiter of reality. When you're a little older or a little smarter, maybe you'll get it. As it is, your failure to comprehend is not my problem.