Heathen Crusade III... what's the latest?

[JayKeeley]

an FYI.... we have no intention to move it. thanks.

You mean location or date?

Location I'm fine with.

Moving the date to accommodate a much sought after band? Well, that would make sense.

you wouldn't have to ... that's the freaking point ... the Dimmu fans WOULD be paying for Rudra's ... come on ... simple business.

*shakes head*

The funny thing here is that the two people arguing for this "need to expand" are the two who have the least interest in it. Zod goes only dependent on the line up and Lurch will never go no matter who takes the stage anyway.

I'm not denying that Dimmu would bring in the numbers and cash, obviously, but it would be at the expense of the crowd being 80% Dimmu fans. It's not about being teenage it's about not being interested in going to a fucking Dimmu headline show which just so happens to have a few random opening acts.

Shit, I wouldn't even go to that if it were in my backyard.

and aren't you the one that always wants to expose new and underground bands to bigger crowds.

Yes, but to the rest of the underground metal community, not a teenage MTV crowd who just so happen to have a passing interest in metal because it annoys their parents.

I just think there are more real fans out there who are "better qualified" for attending a heathen festival before having to resort to Cradle of Filth fans.

If it means having to resort to these measures, then so be it, but surely collectively we would all consider it a shame simply because, as Jerry said, existing fans are just too fucking lazy / cheap to make the trip.

*shrugs*

 

[JayKeeley]

I realize its a little late to weigh in on this thread. But I agree with Zod, a headliner is the most viable way to keep the headliners alive. I think gojira, or Amon Amarth would draw just enough people from the local area to cover expenses (around three to five hundred). Then fly a band another band from europe to co-headline. I think I've made it clear that Borknagar is my favorite for the fest.

Yeah, that's not a bad idea if you think Amon Amarth will bring a large local crowd -- they're big yet not as retarded as Dimmu or COB or Cradle of Filth. That would be balanced out with the remainder of fans flying in to see the other bands.

Otherwise, I think it's obvious nobody's going to be flying in to MN specifically to see Amon Amarth -- particularly with the likelihood of Amon Amarth about to embark on their own headlining US tour with Decapitated.

And for the record, dimmu would just fuck it up. You have to figure, Station 4* can only hold about 800 people, dimmu can easily sell 2000.

Well, yeah.

 

[JayKeeley]

-I was under the assumption last year that you could sponsor a band of your choosing if they met the promoters seal of approval?? If so how fucking awesome would it be if we could bring over an RC sponsored band like Negura Bunget to rock the stage at the Grand Daddy of em all? Hell it may even motivate me to donate more. Who were you guys planning on getting for NYC?!?

OK now we're talking!

 

[lurch70]

Zod goes only dependent on the line up and Lurch will never go no matter who takes the stage anyway.

... I am just in this discussion as it is interesting business wise.
my days of being a band fanboy are about 15 year behind me, so really not many current bands make me freak out over them to the point that I "have" to see them.

I mean look at Wacken for example, its always the greatest mish-mosh of bands from all genres of metal and geographical locations ... is it always sold out? from what I hear ... all the time. Is the "vibe" there? From what I hear its unbeatable and the reason most metal fans go.

 

[JayKeeley]

yeah man, I hear you. There is no doubt that some of us here have an attachment to the festival, and it's pretty obvious that the forum doubles up as the HC care crew.

I totally understand what makes business sense, I think we all do.

However, the whole point of us pledging $$ is so that HC can continue in the same vein as before, without it having to scrape the barrel and become:

"HC 3: An Audience with Alexi Laiho and Friends"

If it ends up with Satyricon, Borknagar, or Enslaved as a headliner, then great! I'm ok with all those bands...the only thing I question is whether more people would show up than HC 1 or 2. Maybe our donations will help balance it out.

But let's see!

Over to you Mister Mayhem. The floor is all yours.

 

[lurch70]

Mister Mayhem had one brief statement to make ... I think his mind is already made up ... and also I heard rumors about a small tour with a certain band we want to bring over

 

[Reign in Acai]

Compromising the festival's integrity to seek longevity would only serve to piss off the loyal following that travel across the country to watch a legitimate underground festival. Save the big name sellouts like Amon Amarth for Sounds of the Underground. AA not a sellout?!? Sorry, but any band who willingly plays Nordic theme tunage to a sea of ninja moshers with steel acne is a band that I can no longer respect.

 

[JayKeeley]

...a more mainstream headliner to draw in younger or more mainstream* metal fans. They will come for their favorite band, get exposed to unknown or unsigned groups, get sucked into the amazing atmosphere, and be proud to call themselves HC veterans....

That's great, but a slight flaw here....you do realize that all the noobs will show up 5 minutes before their band goes on. And that'll be 80% of the entire audience.

That said, we should define "mainstream". List specific band ideas.

Are you talking Enslaved, Sigh, Borknagar, or Satyricon?

Or Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, or Korn?

 

[lurch70]

That's great, but a slight flaw here....you do realize that all the noobs will show up 5 minutes before their band goes on. And that'll be 80% of the entire audience.

so this is ideal than in all ways ... they buy the tickets > moolah for Nemtheanga > still a tr00 fest since they won't come in and ruin the vibe early

 

[General Zod]

so this is ideal than in all ways ... they buy the tickets > moolah for Nemtheanga > still a tr00 fest since they won't come in and ruin the vibe early

Exactly.

Just for shits and giggles, let's say HC could get Dimmu to headline (which I doubt they can). For starters, I think there's an incorrect perception of what sort of crowd Dimmu attracts. It's not a Killswitch Engage/Lamb of God/Trivium/Avenged Sevenfold crowd. It's not even a CoB crowd. It's a Metal crowd. The cross-over between Metalcore and Dimmu is minimal, which is exactly why Dimmu has Metalcore openers (because they wouldn't draw those people otherwise). Second, the folks who would go only to see Dimmu, when they hit the stage at 10PM, wouldn't be around for Rudra at noon. And if they were around for Rudra, it means they're open to be converted. And every scene needs new blood if it's to survive. And while the tr00est and most kvlt RCers might not like the pairing, I'm betting Primordial, Moonsorrow, Rudra, etc, would love the exposure that opening for Dimmu could provide.

Oh yeah... for the record, Dimmu kicks ass live. I saw them at the Trocadero in Philly, right around the release of DCA, and they were tight, the sound was great and they have a ton of stage presence. The club was complete madness.

Zod

 

[Dark One]

I wouldn't be overly worried about Dimmu - Zod makes a good point about them not bringing in a completely different crowd all on their own. I think they'd be worth the risk (and yes, of course the chances of that happening would be slim to none anyway since Dimmu could easily sell out a larger venue).

My philosophy on all this is maintained - I'd rather see the fest continue in at least some capacity than not at all. We will always have HC1 and HC2. If HC3 were a bit different - I'm also quite certain it wouldn't be *so* different that none of the "regulars" would want to return. We'd all still get to party together and I'm sure it would retain most if not all of it's former allure.

Again though, who knows, if we can get a large enough collective pledge together, we can help ensure that the fest continues and barely needs to change at all. Let's continue to toss ideas around as well as continue to wait and see what happens.

Jason

 

[General Zod]

The funny thing here is that the two people arguing for this "need to expand" are the two who have the least interest in it. Zod goes only dependent on the line up and Lurch will never go no matter who takes the stage anyway.

But how many people, with the exception of a handful in here, attend a festival with a roster they don't like/know? Granted, festivals like Wacken, ProgPower, etc., with well established reputations, have a sizable, dedicated fan base. But I think it's unrealistic, from a business sense, for HC to try to cater exclusively to the handful of people of will buy tickets for HC III before the first band is announced.

And for the record, had they booked one band, just one that I liked, I would have been at HC II.

Zod

 

[Reign in Acai]

I was at a Dimmu show when Hypocrisy and Nevermore where opening up for them several years ago. The crowd they attract though cut from a different cloth is equally as disheartening to my spirit. 17 year old faggoths dawned in sweat smeared corpse paint that they mashed together from the contents of their mothers make up bags. The rest of the crowd is made up of overzealous columbine gunmen who throw on their Death Cult Armageddon CD-Rs to bring them back up from the emotional release delivered by the Cure's "Boy's Don't Cry" that they had blasting from their Sanyos moments prior. If this is the route HC wishes to take, so be it. I'll stay home and save my money for a gig that is more to my liking. Though I have little to worry, as I know the promoters have their hearts in it.

What other festival provides you the opportunity of seeing bands the caliber of Todesbonden, Dark Forest, Mael Mordha, Gwynbald, and Obtest all under the same roof, with like minded folk that are to see the above bands. I could care less if Dimmu Shitzu who may be the God damn worst band my ears have ever had the displeasure of being subjugated to, (I walked out of their performance upon first yelp) be the means to an end that ensures that I get to see a solid undercard, "The RIA" does not want them there!!! Their presence and the crowd they would attract would piss on my natural high, hence making a 2,100 mile voyage nothing but mental anguish that could have easily been self-inflicted by going to any number of Gigs on Sunset blvd. HC provides a stage for real bands, and most importantly, real fans! Fuck Compromise!!!


Edit - Pissing off your core audience would be a grave mistake. These are the people will return for HC IV, unlike the Dimmu fans who are only attending to see their favorite black metal boy band.

 

[Dark One]

RiA - no one is saying the festival would be *better* if a bigger name band is brought on board (or at least a bigger band outside the traditional HC mold). All they're saying is that from a business standpoint it may not be possible for the festival to *survive* otherwise, that's all.

That may not even end up being the case, this is just one idea being kicked around so be patient.

Hey, I'm completely with you that the atmosphere of HC1 and 2 were unmatched, but if that formula will not allow for HC3, it's time to think outside the box. Perhaps the pledge thread will work, or at least help in keeping the festival as close as can be to the last two - at least it's an idea that we're trying that a band like Dimmu has nothing to do with. Bottom line, we're trying everything we can think of.

Jason

 

[Reign in Acai]

All I'm saying is that I rather watch this fest die a death of integrity than see it raped and massacred.

 

[Dark One]

All I'm saying is that I rather watch this fest die a death of integrity than see it raped and massacred.

I understand - but there's definitely a ton of grey area between "integrity" and "raped and massacred". You may not see any middle ground whatsoever, but I do think it's possible.

In your vision, either way is a loss. I'm hopeful there's a win in there somewhere.

 

[Ars Magna]

You guys are probably all well aware, but Agalloch does have some minor ties to MN. Jason lived out there for a while about a decade or so ago. I'm not sure how long he was there, but he might be up for a return. Surely he has a few connections left in the area.

 

[MetalNations]

Mister Mayhem had one brief statement to make ... I think his mind is already made up ... and also I heard rumors about a small tour with a certain band we want to bring over

Yup. and I am not sure what you heard... but it is false. Have not even thought about it.

 

[circus_brimstone]

Keep in mind that a high-profile headliner will play last, so if you don't wanna see 'em, don't stay! Easy.

 

[Reign in Acai]

Have not even thought about it.

Jason Jordinson the IV - I've missed each headlining act the past 2 years. For Moonsorrow I was in a drunken stupor at the RC table and didn't pay attention to a note. At HCII during Bal-Sagoth, I was in the parking lot asleep with the heater on full blast. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be pissed senseless if a band the sub-par caliber of Dimmu headlined