Hi everyone !

[Ryan M.]

LOL.

 

[Martyr's Crown]

Rather ironic, eh?

Also, I like how the thread just letting us know about a new forum member devolved into a theological debate of epic proportions.

 

[Child Of God]

Some of the things you say are based off of society not the bible...

Like the fact that I said Death metal is satanic-inspired music ? Yes, so I may be wrong...

@martyr's crown : yes, I think you're right, that fact that Death metal is considered as "evil" comes from society, so I was wrong on that thing.
But there's still the question : is it appropriate to use the tools of the World (Satan !!) to bring people to Christ ?
I won't answer, but I think the answer is "no".

I think we should close that debate so we won't waste our time
I was wrong attempting to "judge" what's right and what's wrong with Christian artists. Read 1 Corinthians 4:5. (can't quote it, my Bible is in French).
Maybe what I said was right, maybe what FleshAndBloodTheocracy said was right, maybe we were both wrong, but that's God who will judge that, not us

Edit : found something interesting : Jacques 4:4, and Jean 2:15-17.

 

[dudu]

The names are different in English, so here it is for those who are interested.

James 4:4 (New American Standard Bible)

4You (A)adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with (B)the world is (C)hostility toward God? (D)Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

John 2:15-17 (New American Standard Bible)

15And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;

16and to those who were selling (V)the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making (W)My Father's house a place of business."

17His (X)disciples remembered that it was written, "(Y)ZEAL FOR YOUR HOUSE WILL CONSUME ME.

Also, I would highly recommend you read this page, Johannes does a good job
http://www.metalforjesus.org/friorfoe.html

 

[Ryan M.]

Rather ironic, eh?

Also, I like how the thread just letting us know about a new forum member devolved into a theological debate of epic proportions.

*points at flesh* no jk dude!

 

[Craigsnedeker]

Like the fact that I said Death metal is satanic-inspired music ? Yes, so I may be wrong...

@martyr's crown : yes, I think you're right, that fact that Death metal is considered as "evil" comes from society, so I was wrong on that thing.
But there's still the question : is it appropriate to use the tools of the World (Satan !!) to bring people to Christ ?
I won't answer, but I think the answer is "no".

When you look at it, teens and such who listen to death metal, will only listen to death metal. So you can reach out to them by making Christian death metal. A band called For Today proves this.

Also, if you only want to give glory to God and share his love, I don't think it's wrong to make music "wordly"

 

[Ryan M.]

Also, if you only want to give glory to God and share his love, I don't think it's wrong to make music "wordly"

I like how you put "worldly" in quotes. Because it is not really worldly. I think you should read the book called "worldliness"... it is a good book and it defines true worldliness.

Man did I actually say "worldly" that many times? SHEESH

 

[Child Of God]

Ah, I wrote "Jean" (John) sorry, It was 1 John 2:15-17.

When you look at it, teens and such who listen to death metal, will only listen to death metal. So you can reach out to them by making Christian death metal. A band called For Today proves this.

God uses them because He is merciful ! Anyway, God bless these bands !

Thank you for the article.

 

[Craigsnedeker]

Article? LOL sorry

And x2 for God to bless these bands.

 

[Matt Smith]

-.-

I swear, it's threads like this that drive me away from my Christian roots.

I totally understand what you mean.

It's even more fun when you're actually in a band, and under the microscope of the Christian Police. Nothing's really happened to us, but I've read enough stuff like the above to know how it is. Put it this way, it's not a coincidence that I've intentionally tried to stay as far away as possible from the Christian "scene."

I can't think of any other line of work where your reputation can take a hit because someone said they heard someone else tell somebody one time that X band member said so-and-so when he was on tour with X band.

 

[Child Of God]

Article?

This one, that dudu told me to read : http://www.metalforjesus.org/friorfoe.html
About this : very interesting ! I'm so confused after reading it ! If what's inside is the right interpretation of the scriptures so, I will go on listening to Christian Metal happily
I hope what's inside is right.
I think I was too radical. Maybe I was right, maybe wrong, ahh, I don't know (I hope I was wrong).

I can't think of any other line of work where your reputation can take a hit because someone said they heard someone else tell somebody one time that X band member said so-and-so when he was on tour with X band.

Forgive me, it is what I did with Skillet focusing on some stupid details :s (I'm so stupid)

It's even more fun when you're actually in a band, and under the microscope of the Christian Police. Nothing's really happened to us, but I've read enough stuff like the above to know how it is. Put it this way, it's not a coincidence that I've intentionally tried to stay as far away as possible from the Christian "scene."

Forgive me if I have acted like some "Christian Police". It wasn't my purpose, I just wanted to know the truth about these things, cause I just started listening to metal 4 months ago, and I don't know what I have to do to be right and to follow God.
I don't know nothing about nothing. I'm just confused (and you can see it by the way I write things since the beginning of the "debate", it's obvious). I NEED to learn.

God bless you.

 

[Ryan M.]

No hard feelings Child of God. Forgiven.

@Matt:

I see what you mean. I'm not in a band or anything but I've seen some really strong Christian bands get thrown down by peeps (I've had incedents where I got a bit angry 2) . Any band actually (secular ones 2). People are like, "OMG YOU LISTEN TO SYMPHONY X? THEY ARE EVIL PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY SAY THE D WORD!" Really, they are taking it literally though. BUT... I still have lost a bit of hope in Skillet after some interviews. Not a hater though. NEVER WILL BE!
I hope I was not a Christian music police. I'm not trying to be one. I listen to Led Zeppelin so I don't see why I should say some other bands are satanists. LOL!

 

[Ryan M.]

I don't know nothing about nothing. I'm just confused (and you can see it by the way I write things since the beginning of the "debate", it's obvious). I NEED to learn.

God bless you.

Most humble thing I've ever heard.

 

[Craigsnedeker]

Any time I see someone who goes "all death metal is from the devil" I wonder if they doubt God's power. He can take anything the devil throws at us and turn it into something good, like death metal music. I have some death metal songs, and the lyrics glorify God like nothing else I've seen.

But Father, Oh Father... I called your name. God I've seen you move, I've seen you rescue the lost, and heal the lame. Jesus, I want to know you. I lay my life before you. Thank you for dying on the cross and washing away my sin. I have nothing to offer but still you stand before me with open arms. Father, I believe. I believe in your love. I believe in your grace. I believe in your unending love. I believe in your amazing grace.

Song:Brave the seas by See the Light, this is a extreme hard metal song, with growling lyrics. Nothing that sounds Christian but you can see by the lyrics it is.

 

[Ryan M.]

Any time I see someone who goes "all death metal is from the devil" I wonder if they doubt God's power. He can take anything the devil throws at us and turn it into something good, like death metal music. I have some death metal songs, and the lyrics glorify God like nothing else I've seen.


Song:Brave the seas by See the Light, this is a extreme hard metal song, with growling lyrics. Nothing that sounds Christian but you can see by the lyrics it is.

It's all that matters. God glorifying lyrics.

 

[BM]

I NEED to learn.

You don't need anything, as in that you have to. Just give it some time.

When I just got into metal, I was browsing some music (metal, of course) in the local Christian music shop and found some band. Looking into their lyrics, giving their disc a spin, I was shocked. Was this Christian? (It was black metal, and all I was used to was Petra...)

The other day, with the discussions about what is 'allowed', I was looking into this band again, but this time I was amazed by the depth in their lyrics. Their music sounded much better too.

 

[RedFox742]

It's even more fun when you're actually in a band, and under the microscope of the Christian Police. Nothing's really happened to us, but I've read enough stuff like the above to know how it is. Put it this way, it's not a coincidence that I've intentionally tried to stay as far away as possible from the Christian "scene."

I can't think of any other line of work where your reputation can take a hit because someone said they heard someone else tell somebody one time that X band member said so-and-so when he was on tour with X band.

Which is why I said before: Christianity should be more like Theocracy lyrics, personal and respectful, and less like the horrible "organized" mess this stupid world has made it into.

It's rather tragic that because of what you chose to write about, you end up lumped in with so many whackjobs on one side--and because of the genre you chose, with an equal number on the other. Also admirable that you stick with it nonetheless.

 

[Ryan M.]

Which is why I said before: Christianity should be more like Theocracy lyrics, personal and respectful, and less like the horrible "organized" mess this stupid world has made it into.

It's rather tragic that because of what you chose to write about, you end up lumped in with so many whackjobs on one side--and because of the genre you chose, with an equal number on the other. Also admirable that you stick with it nonetheless.

You say it like it is.

 

[dudu]

I totally understand what you mean.

It's even more fun when you're actually in a band, and under the microscope of the Christian Police. Nothing's really happened to us, but I've read enough stuff like the above to know how it is. Put it this way, it's not a coincidence that I've intentionally tried to stay as far away as possible from the Christian "scene."

I can't think of any other line of work where your reputation can take a hit because someone said they heard someone else tell somebody one time that X band member said so-and-so when he was on tour with X band.

Well said, and to be honest this made me feel kind of bad for spreading the rumour I heard of Skillet. I really hope it is not true, their is nothing I would like more. I'm not around to nab people when they do something wrong, in fact swearing and such does not bother me personally very much, its just that when you have an audience which may have many unsaved in it, you need to maintain your witness and legitimacy. If you do something controversial however it is likely you will be labeled by the secular crowd as a faker and will give other genuine Christians a bad reputation and likely push the people that need Jesus away from you.

All in all, as I've said I'm not out their to condemn people or put them down, I just think with greater power and crowds comes a greater responsibility to be genuine in your faith.

 

[Matt Smith]

Forgive me, it is what I did with Skillet focusing on some stupid details :s (I'm so stupid)

Haha no need to apologize, man...I wasn't referring to you (or anyone) specifically. I'm sure your heart is in the right place, and I'm glad you're trying to do the right thing. I just mean in general, where I've seen the type of conversation above go on and on to the point where hearsay becomes looked at as truth, and the messengers are placed under a weird microscope separate from the message.

I do believe that anyone who names the name of Christ has a responsibility to live and act differently, and I believe this is ultimately between each person and God. I just think that when it gets to the point where someone hears something about someone from someone else, and uses that "information" to deduce that the person in question is somehow less than perfect (aren't we all?) and therefore not a qualified gospel representative, that leads to problems. None of us is worthy to speak, sing, or otherwise represent the gospel--especially me--so it's certainly not our place to judge another's motives secondhand, based on the very limited part of the picture we see (or hear). Either the music lifts you up, or it doesn't. Either a song is based in truth, or it isn't. I can't concern myself with the life or motive of the person singing the song any more than I would consider not eating my hamburger because the guy who sold it to me at McDonald's might be morally reprehensible. There's just no constructive end to that kind of paranoid outlook on life--either you end up as a terrible person whom no one else wants to be around, or you end up a hermit atop your own mountain of solitude.

It's the same sort of mentality that has permeated the church in general, which is why so many people in the world are immediately turned off by "church people." I can attest to this firsthand, and it's what the song "Wages of Sin" is about.

Anyway, I think most everyone here has good intentions. Let's just keep it civil and respectful.