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Till Fjalls

Till Fjalls

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May 21, 2001
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Why I don't like Blackwater Park As Much as the other albums! It's taken a while, but I've come to the conclusion they have gotten too tight as a band, and it makes them lose the feel they had before. The others were tight, but not as perfect, and the production on BWP just takes away from that atmosphere as well. Any one else think so?

Same with Cynic-their songs are great ,but I am never compelled to listen to their album because their sound/feel doesn't seem to suit the music.
 
Originally posted by Till Fjalls
Why I don't like Blackwater Park As Much as the other albums! It's taken a while, but I've come to the conclusion they have gotten too tight as a band, and it makes them lose the feel they had before. The others were tight, but not as perfect, and the production on BWP just takes away from that atmosphere as well. Any one else think so?

Same with Cynic-their songs are great ,but I am never compelled to listen to their album because their sound/feel doesn't seem to suit the music.
Click to expand...
Yep, i think you're like me, and you notice the subtleties. In classical music its the subtleties that are so important, the slight speeding up and slowing down while your playing, the slightly different sound the different picking positions achieve, the variation in string attack... etc etc.

With 'great' production most of this is lost, the guitars and drums are played in perfect mechanical timing... all the levels are bumped up to the same thing (compression... ).... each drum hit sounds exactly the same as the next.... everything is recorded with the same settings.. etc etc..

Theyve lost all the things that occur naturally.

Still Life is so much better, it has great production but it also isnt 100% perfect, you still hear fingers scrape across the strings and stuff.

Incidentaly this is why i rate Mark Knopfler as a guitarist and musician, where many guitarist take one look at him and see nothing special at all. So much expression is lost on the guitar when you throw on full out distortion (which compresses, obviously)...
 
Originally posted by Till Fjalls
Why I don't like Blackwater Park As Much as the other albums! It's taken a while, but I've come to the conclusion they have gotten too tight as a band, and it makes them lose the feel they had before. The others were tight, but not as perfect, and the production on BWP just takes away from that atmosphere as well. Any one else think so?

Same with Cynic-their songs are great ,but I am never compelled to listen to their album because their sound/feel doesn't seem to suit the music.
Click to expand...

Switch to grindcore/noise. Old black metal could do too.
 
Originally posted by YaYoGakk
Yep, i think you're like me, and you notice the subtleties. In classical music its the subtleties that are so important, the slight speeding up and slowing down while your playing, the slightly different sound the different picking positions achieve, the variation in string attack... etc etc.

With 'great' production most of this is lost, the guitars and drums are played in perfect mechanical timing... all the levels are bumped up to the same thing (compression... ).... each drum hit sounds exactly the same as the next.... everything is recorded with the same settings.. etc etc..

Theyve lost all the things that occur naturally.

Still Life is so much better, it has great production but it also isnt 100% perfect, you still hear fingers scrape across the strings and stuff.

Incidentaly this is why i rate Mark Knopfler as a guitarist and musician, where many guitarist take one look at him and see nothing special at all. So much expression is lost on the guitar when you throw on full out distortion (which compresses, obviously)...
Click to expand...

Personal thing yayo what do you enjoy more playing, perfect timing composed songs with harmonies and melodies and rhythms and colors perfectly planned out; or improvisation with a lot of sentiments and imperfections to it. Opeth in the past sounded to me like it was a bit improvised when it was being composed, and most of you guys that follow this line or reasoning seem to like improvisations better.
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope
Personal thing yayo what do you enjoy more playing, perfect timing composed songs with harmonies and melodies and rhythms and colors perfectly planned out; or improvisation with a lot of sentiments and imperfections to it. Opeth in the past sounded to me like it was a bit improvised when it was being composed, and most of you guys that follow this line or reasoning seem to like improvisations better.
Click to expand...
I prefer writing songs actually. Improvising on the spot (and then sticking with what you improvised) doesnt allow for enough time to be truely original or inventive...theres so many options to make a song perfect, the first option is rarely going to be the best. Pre-existing songs are obviously lacking in freedom since they are already defined, i actually rarely learn any songs except for the ones i write or the ones for my band. Other than that i tend to mostly just improvise (but in classical or acoustic ways.. not solos). If im playing pre-existing songs or solos or whatever, i like to be improvising small sections and just going with the flow, never feeling that anything cant be changed or palyed slightly differently.

But yeh, writing is where i get the most enjoyment, it involves a large portion of just improvising and stumbling across things which are worthy to be remembered. But then it has all the perfections and "harmonies and melodies and rhythms and colors perfectly planned out" of a composed song. But then when playing the song back i prefer to again play it with freedom, this doesnt really exist in a band format, and i rarely do it when others are watching too, but when im playing just guitar by myself theres always a side of me thats making small changes and not caring about the perfect timing or playing a perfect replica.

I much prefer to see a band play live to... because almost everyone does the slight improvisations and stuff naturally... the songs end up sounding more real.
 
I never play the same solo twice. I improvise both electric and acoustic solo's, and i think i can say i have my own style. Shure i leave song structures alone but i usually dont leave arragnements, harmonies, rhythms, and specially solo's alone. I always improvise something.

Nowdays im starting to feel as a rare being among underground music, i think i might have mistaken my path and that i should be playing sax on some free jazz band:cry:
 
I realise why I don't like Blackwater Park as much as Still Life: Its just not nearly as complex, it also doesn't feel as melodic or heartfelt, like its more forced.
Its simply not as varied, full stop.
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope
I never play the same solo twice. I improvise both electric and acoustic solo's, and i think i can say i have my own style. Shure i leave song structures alone but i usually dont leave arragnements, harmonies, rhythms, and specially solo's alone. I always improvise something.

Nowdays im starting to feel as a rare being among underground music, i think i might have mistaken my path and that i should be playing sax on some free jazz band:cry:
Click to expand...
hehehee. yeh im finding the same actually, and i know of a few others in the same boat. Metal has so much to offer, you explore it and it gets better and better and more and more technical... but then you reach a stage and you look at metal and suddenly you see all these things that it lacks.. so many ways where it cant compare to jazz or classical. So far i havent stumbled across the perfect jazz for me yet, its kinda similar to how i was with extreme (ie deathy vocals) metal a couple of years ago.. just waiting to find that perfect band to drag me into the right niche.. (and that band was Opeth).. i hear so much in jazz that i love and respect, but just need that 1 band to really get me going.
 
cool, ill download some of these guys now.. im in a jazzy mood..
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope
I never play the same solo twice. I improvise both electric and acoustic solo's, and i think i can say i have my own style. Shure i leave song structures alone but i usually dont leave arragnements, harmonies, rhythms, and specially solo's alone. I always improvise something.

Nowdays im starting to feel as a rare being among underground music, i think i might have mistaken my path and that i should be playing sax on some free jazz band:cry:
Click to expand...

Misanthrope, have you ever considered recording yourself playing? If you've written any material, it would be fascinating stuff to hear.
 
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