How much do you fucking hate The Beatles?

[CiG]

I would say The Beatles musically were quite basic for a great chunk of their existence, hence why they were so influential at the time for other people starting to play music and form bands.
People saw that they were making pretty good music and it was quite simple so it inspired them to pick up musical instruments and give it a try. A lot of great bands from the 60's and 70's probably owe their existence to the simplistic appeal of The Beatles.
KISS were very much the same for the 1970's wave of people starting bands.

Simplicity spreads inspiration like wildfire.

 

[Burzum_Maiden]

They were definitely doing relatively simplistic stuff; my point was basically that they were doing something that no one else was at the time. The best musicians in the world at the time were primarily jazz musicians, and they couldn't do what they were doing because they just didn't understand the style. It was so different.
And also that simple music can be good, and complex or technically proficient music can be awful. Basically that using simple as an insult towards a musician is a slightly pretentious move to make.

 

[CiG]

I'm the last person to put complexity and technicality on a pedestal.

But I would say it's more accurate to describe them as making "weirder" forms of music more palatable and commonplace, rather than actually doing anything original. They opened the doors, they didn't invent the doors. Which is an achievement worthy of respect anyway.

 

[Burzum_Maiden]

True true. I Am the Walrus does exist, after all. And I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the guy who was kinda shaming them for being "simple".

 

[Satanstoenail]

All the interesting stuff The Beatles did was done better by Frank Zappa & The Mothers, it took years for this to dawn on me.

Can you link some songs? I've never explored much Zappa tbh and I'm genuinely interested.

Every now and then I listen to Let It Be though because I like the raw emotion on the record. In fact I think everybody's solo material outclasses The Beatles material by a great margin.

Lennon & Harrison both had some great stuff but I don't think they did anything that outclasses the Beatles material. Let alone by a great margin. And McCartney's solo stuff and Wings are terrible.

 

[CiG]

Can you link some songs? I've never explored much Zappa tbh and I'm genuinely interested.

Sure thing.

This album was essentially him sneering at The Beatles.

I think he's greater as an album experience, but there you go.

Lennon & Harrison both had some great stuff but I don't think they did anything that outclasses the Beatles material. Let alone by a great margin. And McCartney's solo stuff and Wings are terrible.

Oh I quite liked Wild Life by Wings, also the previous two albums by Paul, Ram and McCartney. They're very minimalist and introspective for the most part and I really enjoy that.

Red Rose Speedway and onward doesn't do much for me though.

Something about this just really appeals to me.

 

[Burzum_Maiden]

Lennon & Harrison both had some great stuff but I don't think they did anything that outclasses the Beatles material. Let alone by a great margin. And McCartney's solo stuff and Wings are terrible.

Mull of Kintyre, man. Mull of Kintyre. Never forget it.

 

[Burzum_Maiden]

I like it for the sole purpose of torturing people with that god awful bagpipe section. It's one of those songs that I hate so much but can't stop myself from listening to. It's a certain form of self-abuse, I would say. Dunno why I do it, it is truly awful.

 

[CiG]

That's a brilliant song. Don't know what you're on about.

 

[Burzum_Maiden]

I haven't seen much love for it in the past, but if you like it that's cool. I think the issue is that it was hardly a creative stretch for McCartney.

 

[CiG]

Sure, but then again his appeal was never his creativity in my view. I was drawn to him for his solemn, simplistic, emotionally quaint sound.

Then again I'm very much a lover of British/Irish/Scottish folk music, the bagpipes sit nicely in my palette.

 

[Burzum_Maiden]

That's cool, I've never been a fan of bagpipes personally but I get the appeal. A large part of why I think it gets a bad wrap is that god damn video...

 

[CiG]

Perhaps.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Sure thing.

I listened to the four you posted and it's all much more experimental than anything The Beatles did except for maybe Revolution 9, so I don't really get the comparison. I agree it's much better than Revolution 9. It's pretty goofy though and doesn't really hold up well today. I've got a pretty short fuse for experimental psychedelic noodling these days though.

Oh I quite liked Wild Life by Wings, also the previous two albums by Paul, Ram and McCartney. They're very minimalist and introspective for the most part and I really enjoy that.

Red Rose Speedway and onward doesn't do much for me though.

Something about this just really appeals to me.

I'm listening to Wild Life now, it's not too bad actually. I hadn't heard it before. I thought I'd heard all his 70s/80s post-Beatles stuff but obviously not. My Dad had heaps of his albums, but no Lennon or Harrison solo stuff. I was absolutely bombarded with McCartney as a kid and I ended up hating most of it.

 

[CiG]

I got lucky in that respect, my father despised all of those kinds of 1960's bands. So I was free to discover many things at my own pace, as a fresh experience.

The comparison exists because many people, mostly Beatlemaniacs, claim that The Beatles basically invented psychedelic experimental pop rock music and were this way ahead of their time band, but Frank Zappa did it all way before The Beatles even considered using a foreign instrument.

 

[Satanstoenail]

I don't hear any pop rock in those songs you posted.

 

[CiG]

Go and listen to the albums.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Yeah I'll delve more. I did some reading though and Revolver came out the same year as Freak Out!, so it's not like Zappa was doing that shit 10 years prior. The Beatles have admitted they were directly influenced by him on Sgt Peppers though, and I'm not even sure that's a good thing. I think A Day In The Life is genius but I can pretty much take or leave the rest of the album.

 

[CiG]

I'd never suggest it was anything as extreme as 10 years anyway. This was happening in the very earliest days of experimental popular music, so a few months might as well be 10 years prior, considering the fast development of things in those days and the speed with which influence could spread.

Also, Revolver is hardly experimental in comparison to Freak Out! in my opinion, quite standard fare.

 

[Satanstoenail]

I'd never suggest it was anything as extreme as 10 years anyway. This was happening in the very earliest days of experimental popular music, so a few months might as well be 10 years prior, considering the fast development of things in those days and the speed with which influence could spread.

Well you did say "way before". Same year is hardly way before, no matter how hard you backpedal.

You also said:

Frank Zappa did it all way before The Beatles even considered using a foreign instrument.

...when Harrison had already started using the sitar on Rubber Soul in the track Norwegian Wood.

Also, Revolver is hardly experimental in comparison to Freak Out! in my opinion, quite standard fare.

I already agreed that Zappa's stuff is far more experimental, but Revolver is hardly "standard fare" compared to their previous albums. Revolver was when The Beatles really started experimenting in the studio with effects and tape manipulation and different recording techniques and incorporating psychedelic sounds and references into their music.

You originally said:

All the interesting stuff The Beatles did was done better by Frank Zappa & The Mothers, it took years for this to dawn on me.

I'm interested to know what you think "all the interesting stuff" actually is, because most of what I think of as their interesting stuff was much more minimal in terms of psychedelic and studio experimentation than Zappa. Do you mean Zappa did it better because his stuff was more experimental?

I get that Beatles fanbois or any fanbois at all are fucking annoying when they try to credit their beloved band or artist with creating the universe, but this shouldn't really be a contest.