So anyone who studies jazz or any kind of more technically complex music isn't likely to ever take an interest in less sophicated bands? Riiiiiiiiiiiight...
How to Appreciate Death Metal
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So anyone who studies jazz or any kind of more technically complex music isn't likely to ever take an interest in less sophicated bands? Riiiiiiiiiiiight...
The key point is that punk had thrashy solos before thrash even existed. You go on about the subtle influence of jazz, classical and blues, but you miss the punk influence that is staring you in the face. There are virtually no blatant and overwhelming classical or jazz influence visible in metal, and by the time the 1980s rolled around most metal bands weren't listening to much blues either. The punk influence is staring you right in the face, but you focus on lesser element like the scales used in the solos. Take a step back and look at the overall picture of thrash metal; the speed, the aggression, the blatant political themes, even where the word "thrash" comes from. All things that were done by punk before metal.
Metal changed in the early 1980s, and punk was the catalyst. Unless you have proof that it was something else, and not just a bunch of wild theories based on your own obvious ignorance of the subject...
Also, I would be interested in hearing your response to my other points that you have appeared to ignore. Particularily the cover song issue. Quite a coincidence that a bunch of bands start a genre (thrash) that sounds awfully similar to the punk music directly preceding it, and then covered a bunch of punk bands, isn't it?
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
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This really seems to be a matter of a man not being able to accept something that he's put so much time into being less than he'd originally thought. He seems to want to associate classical and jazz influences and thereby give the illusion of some sort of higher sophistication and intellect in Metal.
Thoth-Amon
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- Apr 4, 2006
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As I have recently returned to Discharge's early material, I thought I would add this: Forget their 1982 album, listen to their fast, aggressive, violent, and dare I say thrashy (with solos!) material from 1980 - Realities of War, Fight Back and Decontrol. That's the year *before* Metallica formed, for those of you keeping score. The material in question is available on The Clay Punk Singles Collection from 1995. (Although I'm sure that if the dozens of previously made points didn't affect RedinTheSky's opinion then this won't either. Still I recommend that any old school thrash/hardcore fans seek out this material, killer stuff).
ohiogrinder
New Metal Member
- Mar 15, 2006
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RedinTheSky
Member
Vitor
Unconventional [Listener]
I keep hearing that later Discharge is terrible and haven't bothered to check it out. At least I have yet to come across a positive review.
@ RedInTheSky
While I commend you for making what appears to be a step towards overcoming your confirmation bias regarding this subject, you seem to have misunderstood the statement that you have quoted in your signature - not surprising giving the comprehension difficulties and musical ignorance you have displayed in this thread. Violent speed and aggression, while defining characteristics of thrash and hardcore punk, are not commonly found in classical/jazz/blues. Certainly not in a way comparable to that of punk and metal - although please, point out some fast/violent/aggressive jazz numbers that are better candidates for thrash influence than punk.
@ RedInTheSky
While I commend you for making what appears to be a step towards overcoming your confirmation bias regarding this subject, you seem to have misunderstood the statement that you have quoted in your signature - not surprising giving the comprehension difficulties and musical ignorance you have displayed in this thread. Violent speed and aggression, while defining characteristics of thrash and hardcore punk, are not commonly found in classical/jazz/blues. Certainly not in a way comparable to that of punk and metal - although please, point out some fast/violent/aggressive jazz numbers that are better candidates for thrash influence than punk.
Dazed and Brutal
Yall About to Witness
MasterT44
In the Groves of Death
I'm not sure how this is being construed as a zero sum game where bands can either be influenced by 'punk' or they can be influenced by classical/jazz/folk/whatever, but they can't possibly be influenced by both. It should be obvious that jazz, classical and folk were all significant influences on metal from the get go, given the frequent allusions to all three in the Ur-metal band, Black Sabbath. It should be equally obvious that later metal owes a good deal of its riff lexicon and most of its rhythmic punch to punk, crust and hardcore.
This too, was true almost from punk's inception: can anyone honestly say that "Exciter" would have sounded anything like the song we know and love if punk hadn't burst into the popular consciousness just a few months before? And we're talking JUDAS PRIEST here, not some crusty underdog from the lower tier of speed metal.
On the flipside, the very same album includes "Beyond the Realms of Death," a song that not only includes severally overtly neoclassical gestures, but is very much an electrified version of a sort of British folk music that ultimately derives from the tradition of formal court ballads (usually tragic) of Tudor and Stuart England.
And really, what was (and is) pretty much all extreme metal from Slayer on if not the melding of the rhythmic intensity of "Exciter" with the epic sensibility of "Beyond the Realms of Death" - that is, the melding of the 'punk' influence and the classical and folk influences? Hell, go check out some of the classic Slayer interviews of the early and mid 1980s, When asked about their biggest influences, they rattle off the usual metal suspects - Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Venom - and D.R.I., Dicharge and The Exploited, and Bach and Beethoven. I don't know if it gets much clearer than that.
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