How would Orchid & Morningrise sound these days?
- Thread starter Ruun
- Start date
Jester-Race
Member
I highly doubt this. The original albums is what made them so... perfect, in an imperfect way if you know what I mean.
Increased production with different drumming (it would happen, face it) wouldn't make it better for sure.
No thanks, I like them just the way they are.
Although if they wanted to do it I'd buy it either way (just like I did still life)
Great topic which really makes me wanna reply, so hope you dont mind a lengthy reply.
Somehow i dont get the whole "bad production" notion at all, i firmly believe that, even with a band with such sound that hi-fi production is almost needed to fully accomplish it, it still comes down to songwriting ideas and artist's belief in what he does. Therefore, i am not only enthralled by unrestrained, wild, "pure genius" spirit of two early records, but i also think Mike (as the band's key songwriter) will never regain the youthful enthusiasm that made those oft rush-recorded performances so special. To me the best songs from those albums hold equally important place as more recent Opeth classics, and i listen to them regularly, fully enjoying the rudimentary production. In mist she was standing stands as a sort of personal myth for me, and Advent might easily be my all-time favourite Opeth composition. And INDEED, it is a composition, nothing like general songwriting, that music sounds so ahead of time, no verse, no chorus, no plan (of course seemingly), no theme, no main riff, no repetition, just a streak of whimsy, arbitrary, mind blowing ideas, one after another, fucking insane, just to think that a boy of 20+ could come up with such ideas, crazy!!!.
Of course, Opeth went on, with new members and different sound, Mikael's writing matured, condensed, "improved", got more subtle, production (especially on albums with Steven Wilson and onwards) allowed him to make layers, multiple overdubs, effects, get new colours and shades... Also acoustic sounds are more tightly woven, Mike's fully mastered growling vocals technique (and the early records often verge on screaming, dont they?), clean vocals got more important role perhaps... Yet, many of the elements that define Opeth's musical language were put forth on those to me seminal early recordings. Moreover, this delirious, euphoric, and also brave attitude is something one can only have, in an authentic way, in his early twenties (imo), and that attitude is so well captured on Orchid and Morningrise.
I think live renditions of those old compositions should be warmly welcome by any fan, but least because they may feature "better production". Unfortunately though, the band didnt tour too much in those early stages, so live performances of some O/MR songs are scarce at best. I so wish i could at least have full version of this performance which unfortunately gets cut just as the last part begins... Performing these songs nowadays would be awesome, but i somehow crave for early, "pre-mature" performances more than anything.
BUT. The question is - should O/MR get rehashed in a modern studio? IMO no, not at all. It wouldnt be it, it would be like redoing Kill'em all, i reckon it would sound cold, old and frold
. And old recordings on contrary do not sound dated at all to me, they sound precocious and fresh, warts and all... I for one cant even understand what could one complain about when it comes to O/MR sound. It should have been that way. Orchid was recorded in 12 days i think, did you know that? It seems way too short a time to cut an Opeth record, but in retrospect i think that pressure factor was important and complemented the explosive temperament of those albums...
Somehow i dont get the whole "bad production" notion at all, i firmly believe that, even with a band with such sound that hi-fi production is almost needed to fully accomplish it, it still comes down to songwriting ideas and artist's belief in what he does. Therefore, i am not only enthralled by unrestrained, wild, "pure genius" spirit of two early records, but i also think Mike (as the band's key songwriter) will never regain the youthful enthusiasm that made those oft rush-recorded performances so special. To me the best songs from those albums hold equally important place as more recent Opeth classics, and i listen to them regularly, fully enjoying the rudimentary production. In mist she was standing stands as a sort of personal myth for me, and Advent might easily be my all-time favourite Opeth composition. And INDEED, it is a composition, nothing like general songwriting, that music sounds so ahead of time, no verse, no chorus, no plan (of course seemingly), no theme, no main riff, no repetition, just a streak of whimsy, arbitrary, mind blowing ideas, one after another, fucking insane, just to think that a boy of 20+ could come up with such ideas, crazy!!!.
Of course, Opeth went on, with new members and different sound, Mikael's writing matured, condensed, "improved", got more subtle, production (especially on albums with Steven Wilson and onwards) allowed him to make layers, multiple overdubs, effects, get new colours and shades... Also acoustic sounds are more tightly woven, Mike's fully mastered growling vocals technique (and the early records often verge on screaming, dont they?), clean vocals got more important role perhaps... Yet, many of the elements that define Opeth's musical language were put forth on those to me seminal early recordings. Moreover, this delirious, euphoric, and also brave attitude is something one can only have, in an authentic way, in his early twenties (imo), and that attitude is so well captured on Orchid and Morningrise.
I think live renditions of those old compositions should be warmly welcome by any fan, but least because they may feature "better production". Unfortunately though, the band didnt tour too much in those early stages, so live performances of some O/MR songs are scarce at best. I so wish i could at least have full version of this performance which unfortunately gets cut just as the last part begins... Performing these songs nowadays would be awesome, but i somehow crave for early, "pre-mature" performances more than anything.
BUT. The question is - should O/MR get rehashed in a modern studio? IMO no, not at all. It wouldnt be it, it would be like redoing Kill'em all, i reckon it would sound cold, old and frold
. And old recordings on contrary do not sound dated at all to me, they sound precocious and fresh, warts and all... I for one cant even understand what could one complain about when it comes to O/MR sound. It should have been that way. Orchid was recorded in 12 days i think, did you know that? It seems way too short a time to cut an Opeth record, but in retrospect i think that pressure factor was important and complemented the explosive temperament of those albums...
The Porcelain Eater
Member
Great topic which really makes me wanna reply, so hope you dont mind a lengthy reply.
Somehow i dont get the whole "bad production" notion at all, i firmly believe that, even with a band with such sound that hi-fi production is almost needed to fully accomplish it, it still comes down to songwriting ideas and artist's belief in what he does. Therefore, i am not only enthralled by unrestrained, wild, "pure genius" spirit of two early records, but i also think Mike (as the band's key songwriter) will never regain the youthful enthusiasm that made those oft rush-recorded performances so special. To me the best songs from those albums hold equally important place as more recent Opeth classics, and i listen to them regularly, fully enjoying the rudimentary production. In mist she was standing stands as a sort of personal myth for me, and Advent might easily be my all-time favourite Opeth composition. And INDEED, it is a composition, nothing like general songwriting, that music sounds so ahead of time, no verse, no chorus, no plan (of course seemingly), no theme, no main riff, no repetition, just a streak of whimsy, arbitrary, mind blowing ideas, one after another, fucking insane, just to think that a boy of 20+ could come up with such ideas, crazy!!!.
Of course, Opeth went on, with new members and different sound, Mikael's writing matured, condensed, "improved", got more subtle, production (especially on albums with Steven Wilson and onwards) allowed him to make layers, multiple overdubs, effects, get new colours and shades... Also acoustic sounds are more tightly woven, Mike's fully mastered growling vocals technique (and the early records often verge on screaming, dont they?), clean vocals got more important role perhaps... Yet, many of the elements that define Opeth's musical language were put forth on those to me seminal early recordings. Moreover, this delirious, euphoric, and also brave attitude is something one can only have, in an authentic way, in his early twenties (imo), and that attitude is so well captured on Orchid and Morningrise.
I think live renditions of those old compositions should be warmly welcome by any fan, but least because they may feature "better production". Unfortunately though, the band didnt tour too much in those early stages, so live performances of some O/MR songs are scarce at best. I so wish i could at least have full version of this performance which unfortunately gets cut just as the last part begins... Performing these songs nowadays would be awesome, but i somehow crave for early, "pre-mature" performances more than anything.
BUT. The question is - should O/MR get rehashed in a modern studio? IMO no, not at all. It wouldnt be it, it would be like redoing Kill'em all, i reckon it would sound cold, old and frold
+1. This sums it up.
Great topic which really makes me wanna reply, so hope you dont mind a lengthy reply.
Somehow i dont get the whole "bad production" notion at all, i firmly believe that, even with a band with such sound that hi-fi production is almost needed to fully accomplish it, it still comes down to songwriting ideas and artist's belief in what he does. Therefore, i am not only enthralled by unrestrained, wild, "pure genius" spirit of two early records, but i also think Mike (as the band's key songwriter) will never regain the youthful enthusiasm that made those oft rush-recorded performances so special. To me the best songs from those albums hold equally important place as more recent Opeth classics, and i listen to them regularly, fully enjoying the rudimentary production. In mist she was standing stands as a sort of personal myth for me, and Advent might easily be my all-time favourite Opeth composition. And INDEED, it is a composition, nothing like general songwriting, that music sounds so ahead of time, no verse, no chorus, no plan (of course seemingly), no theme, no main riff, no repetition, just a streak of whimsy, arbitrary, mind blowing ideas, one after another, fucking insane, just to think that a boy of 20+ could come up with such ideas, crazy!!!.
Of course, Opeth went on, with new members and different sound, Mikael's writing matured, condensed, "improved", got more subtle, production (especially on albums with Steven Wilson and onwards) allowed him to make layers, multiple overdubs, effects, get new colours and shades... Also acoustic sounds are more tightly woven, Mike's fully mastered growling vocals technique (and the early records often verge on screaming, dont they?), clean vocals got more important role perhaps... Yet, many of the elements that define Opeth's musical language were put forth on those to me seminal early recordings. Moreover, this delirious, euphoric, and also brave attitude is something one can only have, in an authentic way, in his early twenties (imo), and that attitude is so well captured on Orchid and Morningrise.
I think live renditions of those old compositions should be warmly welcome by any fan, but least because they may feature "better production". Unfortunately though, the band didnt tour too much in those early stages, so live performances of some O/MR songs are scarce at best. I so wish i could at least have full version of this performance which unfortunately gets cut just as the last part begins... Performing these songs nowadays would be awesome, but i somehow crave for early, "pre-mature" performances more than anything.
BUT. The question is - should O/MR get rehashed in a modern studio? IMO no, not at all. It wouldnt be it, it would be like redoing Kill'em all, i reckon it would sound cold, old and frold
Epic post man, post of the month. +1
Le_Shrike
Member
- Feb 8, 2008
- 89
- 0
- 6
I don't really have a problem with the production. I know Mike is not a fan, but I think that has more to do with him not being able to get the sounds he had envisioned than the albums actually sounding "bad". I wouldn't want them re-recorded, I don't see that much of a point.
What I would want is tour a la Maiden's first history tour, where they play a 2 hour set list based off of those two. On the other hand, like has been said the first two were of the "creative splurge" variety, and as Mike has matured so much as a song-writer I can see why he wouldn't want to do something like that.
The only song I could consider them re-recording is BRI. Tighten it up and add some more dynamic transitions and it would really be their magnum opus. But that has more to do with re-arrangement than production. I think The Roundhouse Tapes already showed us that Per's keyboards add a hell of a lot to the old compositions (not limited to O/MR, but MAYH and Still Life as well).
So, nostalgia tour > re-recordings.
What I would want is tour a la Maiden's first history tour, where they play a 2 hour set list based off of those two. On the other hand, like has been said the first two were of the "creative splurge" variety, and as Mike has matured so much as a song-writer I can see why he wouldn't want to do something like that.
The only song I could consider them re-recording is BRI. Tighten it up and add some more dynamic transitions and it would really be their magnum opus. But that has more to do with re-arrangement than production. I think The Roundhouse Tapes already showed us that Per's keyboards add a hell of a lot to the old compositions (not limited to O/MR, but MAYH and Still Life as well).
So, nostalgia tour > re-recordings.
To rid you disease
Member
- Jul 5, 2008
- 592
- 0
- 16
yea, according to oldsk00l opeth fans: bad production = atmosphere, good production = sellout.
how the song would sound if opeth record it these days. with fredrik, per, axe
More than likely, it would sound fucking great !
Doubt it will ever happen... just a live performance from time to time... which is also great !
Nasty-Fire
Discursion
That's great! I was just thinking about that while listening the Black Rose Immortal (a discovery for me). I thought it was just a long and boring song in the past, but as I like say, "you always judge things in a wrong way if you don't know/understand them". Listened to it many times, and there are such amazing riffs in there! Imagine if it was even more coherent and well-recorded. This song alone would beat most of what has come after it.
So best idea ever! Opeth should re-record an old album. Yeah. And maybe add some ideas, and work on some structure, etc. Or at least one or two old songs would make me very happy.
Opethian Samurai
Member
- May 21, 2008
- 186
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- 16
Although the thought of re-recording these albums may be a novel idea, I would think that it ultimately does a disservice to the pristine and powerful tracks laid therein. The early sound of Opeth was something genuinely unique and the pure effort generated in those "twilight years" are a reminder of how very special it was to be a part of that experience in that time. In those days of a younger Opeth, the thought process was much different than compared to the present and the fact that there are those who still enjoy those recordings of the past are a testament to the fans' appreciation of these works made long ago.
The composition back then was vigorous in nature combined with calming short melodies that set one's heart alive with a myriad of emotion. When Mikael screamed, it lit your heart alight with fire and cooled them with the overwhelming calm of Peter's guitars and Lopez's drum beats. Truly amazing compositions both when you think back to those years and the many inspirations those recordings have given personal meanings for the avid listeners.
Not to mention that Mikael had just taken over vocal duties in addition to lead guitar and the short constant changes in the years leading up to Orchid that in effect told a very different story altogether. These albums are the testament of triumph and adversity these group members went through and succeeded in overcoming substantial oddities to finally bring forth their art to the masses. In my opinion, it is only appropriate to leave these genuine albums as they are, because to do otherwise would really not do them true justice to the memory of what was before the present.
always and evermore...
The composition back then was vigorous in nature combined with calming short melodies that set one's heart alive with a myriad of emotion. When Mikael screamed, it lit your heart alight with fire and cooled them with the overwhelming calm of Peter's guitars and Lopez's drum beats. Truly amazing compositions both when you think back to those years and the many inspirations those recordings have given personal meanings for the avid listeners.
Not to mention that Mikael had just taken over vocal duties in addition to lead guitar and the short constant changes in the years leading up to Orchid that in effect told a very different story altogether. These albums are the testament of triumph and adversity these group members went through and succeeded in overcoming substantial oddities to finally bring forth their art to the masses. In my opinion, it is only appropriate to leave these genuine albums as they are, because to do otherwise would really not do them true justice to the memory of what was before the present.
always and evermore...
Psssst, between you and me, Lopez wasn't on those albums.
Sssshhhhh, do tell anyone
