If Mort Divine ruled the world

[CiG]

Have you guys ever used any of these weapons? If I were planning on committing a mass murder tomorrow, there's no way I'd use a pistol. I'd use a weapon that provides the most firepower and mag capacity. A semi automatic rifle of some kind.

Most people that decide to do these crimes choose pistols, so who cares what you personally would do, you haven't done it and obviously you're going to say you'll choose a semi, it's the kind of weapon you're arguing against.

The fact is, the main reason people scapegoat semis is because to most sane people saying "why do we need military grade weapons" makes perfect sense.
The reason it's a silly argument is because most gun crimes are pistol-related, so targeting semis is obviously just shock factor and media bait as HB said.
These weapons aren't even the problem statistically, it's pistols.

 

[Vilden]

Feminist men are the dumbest because they can't speak for 3 seconds without constantly mentioning how, because they're men, they don't really understand the topics or issues and how they don't speak for minorities and blah blah blah male privilege.
It's so cringeworthy.

Something cringeworthy are all the bigotry in this thread. People who go at length to proclaim themselves "antifeminists" and upholding outdated christian values without any better reason than "it's how nature intended it to be" or something similar. I mean, it's not like you really give up any privilege, you only share it with a few more of the population.

 

[CiG]

Something cringeworthy are all the bigotry in this thread. People who go at length to proclaim themselves "antifeminists" and upholding outdated christian values without any better reason than "it's how nature intended it to be" or something similar. I mean, it's not like you really give up any privilege, you only share it with a few more of the population.

What the fuck are you ranting about?

 

[JontRevolting]

Talking about any 'ism' is cringeworthy.

 

[Dak]

Have you guys ever used any of these weapons? If I were planning on committing a mass murder tomorrow, there's no way I'd use a pistol. I'd use a weapon that provides the most firepower and mag capacity. A semi automatic rifle of some kind.

Have you used any of these weapons? If I were planning on an operation that would be exclusively indoors/close range (like nearly all of these shootings), I'd much rather have semi auto pistols than a semi auto rifle. It's not even a contest. That people often take rifles shows either a lack of real planning or a lack of experience, not that all these insane people have a solid grasp of weapons and tactics. You can get hicap mags for pistols just like for rifles, you don't have to watch out for the stock/barrel in tight quarters, easily concealed, harder for someone to grab, and so on (as others already noted).

I haven't a clue what Vilden is talking about, but it appears he doesn't either.

 

[Onder]

I'm an old world faggot but I still don't see why those weapons should be available to people or why Americans insist on having a possibility to buy them. A lot of american shit is a real wtf for me, so w/e.

 

[Dak]

I'm an old world faggot but I still don't see why those weapons should be available to people or why Americans insist on having a possibility to buy them. A lot of american shit is a real wtf for me, so w/e.

That is a perfectly understandable query from someone from Europe. Been under one boot or another for too long. Also, since the wall went down, the Czech Republic specifically has seen a distinct lack of conflict due it's central position under the umbrella of Germany and the US. Finally, there's a real lack of diversity in the country according to the numbers I looked at - unless you want to count Europeans from neighboring countries as "diversity".

I would say Europeans should be "wtf" about Jersey Shore et al, but Europe is the center of the stupid rave/trance lifestyle, so w/e.

 

[Onder]

That is a perfectly understandable query from someone from Europe. Been under one boot or another for too long. Also, since the wall went down, the Czech Republic specifically has seen a distinct lack of conflict due it's central position under the umbrella of Germany and the US. Finally, there's a real lack of diversity in the country according to the numbers I looked at - unless you want to count Europeans from neighboring countries as "diversity".

I would say Europeans should be "wtf" about Jersey Shore et al, but Europe is the center of the stupid rave/trance lifestyle, so w/e.

wot

 

[-CC-]

 

[Matt]

Have you used any of these weapons? If I were planning on an operation that would be exclusively indoors/close range (like nearly all of these shootings), I'd much rather have semi auto pistols than a semi auto rifle. It's not even a contest. That people often take rifles shows either a lack of real planning or a lack of experience, not that all these insane people have a solid grasp of weapons and tactics. You can get hicap mags for pistols just like for rifles, you don't have to watch out for the stock/barrel in tight quarters, easily concealed, harder for someone to grab, and so on (as others already noted).

Could be just a preference thing then. I have always performed better with rifles. But if what you're saying is true, then I guess wanting to ban ARs isn't the right course of action then. What do you propose?

Also, I'm not sure that your reasoning for using pistols would apply to everyone. Pistols are harder to aim, and for that reason I can see why a rifle would be a much better choice for them. It takes a lot longer to master pistol accuracy than it does a rifle. You had to qualify with these weapons on a daily basis so it would make more sense for you than it would a disgruntled civilian.

Most people that decide to do these crimes choose pistols, so who cares what you personally would do, you haven't done it and obviously you're going to say you'll choose a semi, it's the kind of weapon you're arguing against.

The fact is, the main reason people scapegoat semis is because to most sane people saying "why do we need military grade weapons" makes perfect sense.
The reason it's a silly argument is because most gun crimes are pistol-related, so targeting semis is obviously just shock factor and media bait as HB said.
These weapons aren't even the problem statistically, it's pistols.

Alright then, well I'll ask you the same question: what is the solution to this problem? Because you can't deny that there is a problem.

 

[Satanstoenail]

wot

Americans should arm themselves to the teeth because of an apparent threat of conflict which will of course mean all citizens will take to the streets with their Walmart guns to defend the great nation, and because a diverse population means dangerous minorities might break into your house or attack you at the 7 Eleven and try to kill you at any given moment. Or something.

 

[Onder]

Americans should arm themselves to the teeth because of an apparent threat of conflict which will of course mean all citizens will take to the streets with their Walmart guns to defend the great nation, and because a diverse population means dangerous minorities might break into your house or attack you at the 7 Eleven and try to kill you at any given moment. Or something.

Jersey Shore is a distraction because I can't be "wtf" about two things at once.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Jersey Shore is a distraction because I can't be "wtf" about two things at once.

That's clearly because of your raver lifestyle.

 

[Dak]

Could be just a preference thing then. I have always performed better with rifles. But if what you're saying is true, then I guess wanting to ban ARs isn't the right course of action then. What do you propose?

Like BO etc pointed out, handguns are responsible for the overwhelming majority of crimes involving a gun, so if the impetus for action were reducing "gun crime", ARs are a poor target. There's no fix-all to the various violence problems, and I'm not necessarily in favor of anything beyond the existing background check system, but more rigorous immigration controls and expanding the scope of the background check (eg mental health) are the most common sensical policy proposals - at least when compared to banning arbitrary pieces of metal and plastic.

Also, I'm not sure that your reasoning for using pistols would apply to everyone. Pistols are harder to aim, and for that reason I can see why a rifle would be a much better choice for them. It takes a lot longer to master pistol accuracy than it does a rifle. You had to qualify with these weapons on a daily basis so it would make more sense for you than it would a disgruntled civilian.

I actually never had official pistol training in the military. Pistols were for SNCOs and officers. I did get some unofficial training, and I've fired pistols on my own time quite a bit. But I've shot more 5.56 from an M-16 than any other round or frame - and I still wouldn't want to be using one indoors. Pistol accuracy is much more difficult to master, but within 10 yards it's still basically point and shoot.

 

[Matt]

Americans should arm themselves to the teeth because of an apparent threat of conflict which will of course mean all citizens will take to the streets with their Walmart guns to defend the great nation, and because a diverse population means dangerous minorities might break into your house or attack you at the 7 Eleven and try to kill you at any given moment. Or something.

You didn't know that owning a gun instantly turns us mericans into James Bond?

 

[Krow]

There's nothing inherently wrong with a gun from Walmart btw. They work just fine.

 

[CiG]

The idea of an armed populace exists in America in order to give people the ability to mobilise against tyranny, either invading from the outside or oppressing from the inside, does it not?

I thought that's what the second amendment was there for as we all know from history, governments can become tyrannical no matter where it's located.
Obviously today that sounds like a hysterical, alarmist idea but the sleep of reason produces monsters.

Alright then, well I'll ask you the same question: what is the solution to this problem? Because you can't deny that there is a problem.

It depends on what you claim the problem is, for example many mass shooters are known to be users of prescription drugs and also recreational drugs, why is this aspect of the crimes glossed over in order to make waves about guns? There's an agenda in there somewhere which nobody wants to address.

 

[Mort Divine]

The idea of an armed populace isn't to rise against tyranny. Always was so the government could call on state militias when the national military was not enough. Over time this became unnecessary obviously though.

 

[SentinelSlain]

I don't know where I'd find the data to check it, but I recall seeing an infographic that claimed that if you excluded black people from the statistics America had similar gun crime levels to some northern European country.

 

[rms]

The idea of an armed populace isn't to rise against tyranny. Always was so the government could call on state militias when the national military was not enough. Over time this became unnecessary obviously though.

It probably has more history in dealing with Indians more than a centralized army. But Shays's and the Whiskey Rebellion were both squashed with the calling up of militia troops.

Americans should arm themselves to the teeth because of an apparent threat of conflict which will of course mean all citizens will take to the streets with their Walmart guns to defend the great nation, and because a diverse population means dangerous minorities might break into your house or attack you at the 7 Eleven and try to kill you at any given moment. Or something.

There's a discussion between myself and CF/Orifice a few pages back on this topic, but doesn't seem to be to productive to bring it up again.

Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries as well as Canada have similar or higher rates of gun ownership than America. It's not an American idea to own guns.